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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:40 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Yes, absolutely, then assuming Hoggard..."
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I suppose Prior wouldn't come in for such critcism if he wasn't such a complete idiot- those cries of "Awww..." accompanying every push to mid-off can get a little tiring. I'd like to do the same to him if he was at the crease, and see how he'd like it. But then of course, I'm the one who'd end up being sent to the ref's office, right?

While I agree with you that that aspect of Priors game is irritating, if he did that and was named Chris Read, then Rachael would have no problem at all with him at all.

The comments from Rachael are based on what she has read and listened to about the quality of his keeping, I doubt for one minute she has ever actually seen him play, and if Prior walked past her in the street, she probably wouldn't actually recognise him (even if he had his Cricket whites on)!!
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:47 AM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "While I agree with you that that aspect..."
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flanflinger, you're a bad man!!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:48 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Yes, absolutely, then assuming Hoggard..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I don't have any major problem with Prior taking the first catch with a dive, although I've just seen the replay and it was heading to first slip. Nevertheless, every 'keeper does it- I'm pretty sure Dujon and Evans did it, just to name two. I suppose Prior wouldn't come in for such critcism if he wasn't such a complete idiot- those cries of "Awww..." accompanying every push to mid-off can get a little tiring. I'd like to do the same to him if he was at the crease, and see how he'd like it. But then of course, I'm the one who'd end up being sent to the ref's office, right?
When he got the left glove to it, it was heading about four foot to slip's right side. When he finished his roll, combined with him clutching at it with the other hand, he was in front of first slip. I've seen it several times and I am under no doubt it was his catch, although he should have been able to take it with two (although it did fly quite quickly)
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:54 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Yes, absolutely, then assuming Hoggard..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I don't have any major problem with Prior taking the first catch with a dive, although I've just seen the replay and it was heading to first slip. Nevertheless, every 'keeper does it- I'm pretty sure Dujon and Evans did it, just to name two.
Evans used to get a lot of stick for exactly that: dig around a little and you'll soon find comments about him making eye catching leaps for the ball to take a ball a keeper with great footwork (like Keith Andrew) would have taken on the walk. Athleticism was also what Dujon relied upon: like Evans.. he was damn good at acrobatic takes... better than you might guess just from listening to him talk of his craft - but he knew damn well that his athletic takes were not always what he'd have chosen to resort to had his footwork been better.

Your choices illustrate your point excellently... but not EVERY 'keeper goes for diving, one-handed takes that are at least going close enough to 1st slip for 1st slip to feel it could have been his.

ps. The main thing with takes on the side of the slips is surely that all concerned know what is, and what is not, the 1st-slip's catch: Read and Tresco had communications problems over that... and when, in his final few games in England, Read showed the discipline to leave balls... 1st slip (Tresco, I think, and perhaps used to Jones leaping for everything) was found to be anything BUT on the same wavelength.

Last edited by Rachael : 10-12-2007 at 12:00 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:16 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Evans used to get a lot of stick for..."
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Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Evans used to get a lot of stick for exactly that: dig around a little and you'll soon find comments about him making eye catching leaps for the ball to take a ball a keeper with great footwork (like Keith Andrew) would have taken on the walk. Athleticism was also what Dujon relied upon: like Evans.. he was damn good at acrobatic takes... better than you might guess just from listening to him talk of his craft - but he knew damn well that his athletic takes were not always what he'd have chosen to resort to had his footwork been better.
How many times have you seen Keith Andrew keep wicket?

Listen, when it comes to pace bowlers, Dujon had EXCELLENT footwork.

He moved and then dived. Attempts to portray him as solely athletic or in possession of poor footwork are misguided. This man wasn't keeping to trundlers and average seamers.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:23 PM in reply to Ninjaman's post starting "How many times have you seen Keith..."
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Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
How many times have you seen Keith Andrew keep wicket?
Probably the same number of times she has seen Matt Prior Keep...

Interesting write up on CricInfo

Quote:
Keith Andrew was a competent county wicket'keeper who had the misfortune to represent England only twice - and each time to find himself on the losing side in heavy defeats.
For me the use of the word Competent does not to me say that he was something exceptional!!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:36 PM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Probably the same number of times she..."
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Well I haven't seen the catch... but this is from someone who did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Miller
Catch of the day
Talking of footwork, this was a gem. Prior was accused of sluggishness behind the stumps during the India series last summer, particularly in the decider at The Oval when he tipped Sachin Tendulkar, of all people, round the post. Upul Tharanga was not so fortunate today. The bowler once again was Sidebottom, but Prior this time was quite literally on his toes. He took off in the direction of first slip, held the chance comfortably in a single mitt, then had the foresight to close his other glove around it as he landed. Tidy stuff.
Cricinfo - Prior's nifty footwork and Harmy's wait
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 01:46 PM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Well I haven't seen the catch... but..."
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Can't ask for anything more than an excellent piece of glovework,twice in this series he has caught very good catches which he hasn't received any praise for from a certain person.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 02:21 PM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Well I haven't seen the catch... but..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
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Originally Posted by flanflinger View Post
Well I haven't seen the catch... but this is from someone who did
Lots of observers... including many who knew lots about batting and bowling... rated Evans extremely highly... and even as England's greatest ever gloveman: the fact that he worked so effectively with Bedser helped... but the harsh reality is that most non-wicket-keepers wouldn't have had the technical insight to discriminate between Evans being good but a bit too flash and someone like Keith Andrew doing the job better.

Same with batting and bowling, really: few have the technical insight to discriminate between the very good and the truly special.

Case in point: how many observers tend to view Sangakkara as Sri Lanka's most accomplished batsman, and the lynchpin of a side of otherwise pretty ordinary willow-wielders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aravinda De Silva
He has just moved to the top of the ICC rankings for Test batsmen (ahead of Australia's Ricky Ponting), the first Sri Lankan to do so, which is good for the country with Muttiah Muralitharan already being there for bowling, but he is the first to admit that Mahela Jayawardene is an even better batsman. Kumar and Mahela have been best friends for half their lives and Kumar once told me in admiration (tinged with just a little frustration): 'I've had to work very hard at being good; Mahela hasn't changed a bit since he was 15.'

Mahela's is an amazing talent coupled with a lot of cricket sense. The first time I saw him was as a teenager in an exhibition match and it was clear then that he had that vital skill of knowing how to manage an innings. There aren't that many complete batsmen around, comfortable in all conditions against all types of bowling, but these two are. It takes a great ball or great catch to get them out whenever they're not being cavalier.
Any fool can observe, only those who work hard at learning to appreciate what is before them have any real appreciation what it is that they see. I find very few commentators on TV or the radio fall into the latter category when it comes to glovework.

See Cricket: Complete Sangakkara puts self-doubt to the sword | Sport | The Observer

ps. See also http://world-a-team.com/the-backroom...t-batting.html
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2007, 02:52 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Lots of observers... including many who..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
Lots of observers... including many who knew lots about batting and bowling... rated Evans extremely highly...
Rachael,

I am very sorry, but what has any of this got to do with whether Matt Prior did a decent job with the bat and with the gloves???

I give credit where credit is due, he performed well, and from what I have read most observers (at the game as opposed to several thousand miles away on a PC reading CricInfo) seemed to agree upon this.

Prior is not the best Keeper around at the moment, he is not as good as Read and certainly not as good as Evans, Russell etc... but he is doing a job where it counts and doing it well, so that deserves some credit, it is to your discredit as someone with such obvious knowledge, that you are sadly unable to type those words into a computer..
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