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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 13-01-2008, 07:43 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Now that is where we must agree to..."
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Ernest Ernest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael View Post
but no seamer should really be taking wickets, and taking 20 wickets should not really be seen as the seam bowler's problem!
This argument assumes that all batsmen are great or very good batsmen.

The facts are that the West Indies bowlers like Holding or Marshall bowled out England on any type of pitch, and the reason was pure pace.

How many England batsmen got out in the latter half the the last centuary waving their bats at fresh air, long after the ball had passed them on any pitch - or got themselves out LBW simply because they were to late on the shot due to the delivery being to fast through the air?.

Brian Lara manage to defy England due to a dead pitch in 2004 when he set his world record, I don't recall England saving many matches under pressure on any pitch - since the days of woolmer or Athey.
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Old 13-01-2008, 09:42 PM in reply to Rachael's post "Marshall vs Walsh in the sub-continent"
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Not all pitches in the subcontinent are dead wickets. The three test series between Pakistan and West Indies in Pakistan from 80-91 were on some of the worst wickets ever. It was almost impossible to score any runs. The same can be said about the Delhi wicket on day one that West Indies played India after the 87 world cup.

If you want to make statements about dead wickets then you have to be more selective. Marshall's performances in Adelaide in 84/5 and Sydney in 88/9 were monumental performances. Walsh always bowled well when leading the attack, it is something he always managed. In India and Pakistan (when Curtley was injured, and the 87 series, the first series after Garner and Holding retirement: and Marshall was absent) he stepped up very well. His bowling on some flat wickets when he was supporting (in fact his bowling in Australia was often poor) was not always up to standard.
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Old 13-01-2008, 10:19 PM in reply to Milo's post starting "Not all pitches in the subcontinent are..."
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It seem's to have been quickly forgoten that Walsh did get a few of his earlier wickets playing a role similar to Ringo Starr in the beatles. Part of the band but not as heavy a hitter as John, Paul or even George.

Starting as the forth ranked member of a quick and deadly quartet behind Marshall, Garner and Holding in 1984. It took him until the retirement of Ambrose before he became the primary dominent West Indies pace bowler.

A few of his earlier career succeses must be considered as due to in some part the pressure that batsmen were put under facing Marshall, Garner and Holding. Then later as the third ranked member of the quartet behind Marshall and Ambrose.
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