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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 29-01-2008, 01:41 PM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Bailey is 22. Cullen is 23. Heal is 24...."
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darksideofthemoon darksideofthemoon is offline
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I don't think Australia have any problems with their fast bowling. Lee, Clark, Johnson and Hilfenhaus with Bracken in the ODIs. In the next 18 months I see the bowling as Lee, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and MacGill. Hopefully MacGill will have got over his injury problems and be around for 2-3 years while Australia find a young spinner.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 12:33 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Bailey is 22. Cullen is 23. Heal is 24...."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Bailey is 22. Cullen is 23. Heal is 24. None of them are like Bryce McGain, coming into first-class cricket remarkably late. As I say, given enough time one of them will do enough to be selected. Certainly, I don't think we can make the same mistake we made of just relying on an all-pace attack, with a couple of overs from Symonds and Clarke.
And all 3 of them are struggling to get a regular game in domestic cricket. And the first two you mention have had miserable summers so far.

The slow left arm chinaman "Heal" is probably more in a battle with Hauritz for Hogg's ODI spot when he retires. But even those two are just holding their heads above water at the moment.

I think Cameron White still looks to be better "as is" and "what if" (potential) than any of these blokes. And will probably be the test incumbent out of the group.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 01:41 AM in reply to acker's post starting "And all 3 of them are struggling to get..."
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The slow left arm chinaman "Heal" is probably more in a battle with Hauritz for Hogg's ODI spot when he retires.
Yes, both of those would seem to be more effective ODD bowlers than first-class bowlers. But someone will emerge to take the Test spot- someone always does.

Quote:
I think Cameron White still looks to be better "as is" and "what if" (potential) than any of these blokes. And will probably be the test incumbent out of the group.
From memory, he's taken 4 wickets from 5 matches this season (albeit at a decent average). That suggests to me that he's not likely to be a frontline first-class bowler. If he gets in, I'm sure it will be primarily due to his batting ability. He may even replace Symonds as the allrounder batting at no. 6, but I just can't see him holding down the primary spinner's position.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 05:35 AM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Yes, both of those would seem to be..."
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
From memory, he's taken 4 wickets from 5 matches this season (albeit at a decent average). That suggests to me that he's not likely to be a frontline first-class bowler.
Deserves a medal considering he has just comeback after breaking his ankle late November.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 10:02 PM in reply to Aurelius's post starting "Bailey is 22. Cullen is 23. Heal is 24...."
Scott-Wozniak Scott-Wozniak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Bailey is 22. Cullen is 23.
Wasn't Cullen dropped by his state side fairly recently? If so, that won't help his Test chances much will it?
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 10:18 PM in reply to Nostromo's post starting "Oz might have had their problems, but I..."
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Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
Oz might have had their problems, but I would not write them off so easily. Lee is good enough for at least another couple of years, as is Stuart Clark. Johnson has definitely shown great promise with the ball and seems to be useful with the bat. Tait tends to blow hot and cold, but I don't think he is as bad as it appeared in the one Test that he played.
Had their problems? You seem to suggest that they've overcome those problems and they most certainly have not.

Lee's good enough for another couple of years? *chuckle* Lee's problem isn't his his age it's his inconsistency and waywardness - he's just as likely to get it wrong as he is to get it right and if he gets it wrong - he goes for runs.

Clark's good enough for another couple of years? He's only just come into the side for gods sake! Supposedly to replace McGrath but he's not exerting the same kind of control that McGrath had which isn't really that surprising. He's a very poor mans McGrath.

I'd agree Johnson is probably the most talented out of the current bunch of Australian fast bowlers, but he's still young and inexperienced and only time will tell as to how he'll develop.

Tait is just as bad as Lee in terms of inconsistency.

The reason they're struggling is obvious - they don't have McGrath's control and accuracy any more and therefore they can't shut an end down and attack and rotate from the other end. They're just as likely to leak runs from both ends now and without a spinner of Warne's class they post little threat now on days 4 and 5 whereas before they were deadly with Warne.

It's Australias batting strength that's keeping them going now as their bowling has been significantly weakened.

It'll be interesting to see in the months to come, statistically just how effective Australias current bowling attack is compared to their old McGrath, Lee, Warne, An other.

I'm willing to bet quite a lot of money that that their old attack was far more effective than their current one.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 10:25 PM in reply to Scott-Wozniak's post starting "Wasn't Cullen dropped by his state side..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak View Post
Wasn't Cullen dropped by his state side fairly recently? If so, that won't help his Test chances much will it?
Apparently not surprisingly !

I just pulled the following quote from the home page of Cricinfo - Baggygreen

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"I suppose someone like Dan Cullen is pretty much going to be in the mix because we'll certainly be looking to take a young spinner." Andrew Hilditch on Australia's plans for the Pakistan tour, should it go ahead
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 10:33 PM in reply to Scott-Wozniak's post starting "Had their problems? You seem to suggest..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak View Post
Lee's problem isn't his his age it's his inconsistency and waywardness - he's just as likely to get it wrong as he is to get it right and if he gets it wrong - he goes for runs.
I've been Lee's biggest critic for years.. but he should be given the benefit of the doubt at present: he appears to have upped his game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak View Post
Clark's good enough for another couple of years? He's only just come into the side for gods sake! Supposedly to replace McGrath but he's not exerting the same kind of control that McGrath had which isn't really that surprising. He's a very poor mans McGrath.
That's harsh: best bowler in the recent series by some way and for my money the best bowler in world cricket (pushed only by Hoggard and Asif).
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Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak View Post
Tait is just as bad as Lee in terms of inconsistency.
More like Mahmood
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 10:45 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I've been Lee's biggest critic for..."
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Rachael, Lee was the best bowler in the recent two Australian test series by a long chalk. Do you rate bowlers then on their ability to take wickets or whether they conform with your hopes and desires to medium paced accuracy (and 2.7 rpo analysis). Asif has hardly taken a wicket for 12 months, the Pakistan selectors appear to have really messed him up.

The leading (non spin) bowler in world Test cricket must be Steyn at the moment. He has taken wickets for fun over the last 12 months, albeit too expensive for your tastes. Clark's ability to LEAD an attack must be still open for debate. A bit like a recent Pollock for me!
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 11:03 PM in reply to Milo's post starting "Rachael, Lee was the best bowler in the..."
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I think the problem is one of perspective. The current crop are being compared to the likes of McGrath and Warne who were so far above the rest you can't really compare them.

Perhaps It's more a case of looking at how do the current crop stack up to the likes of Kasprowicz, Gillespie and others who bowled predominanatly in the shadow of McGrath/Warne.
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