Hide/show banner
Fantasy Cricket

Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion.
Go Back   World A-Team Cricket Forum > International Test Cricket
Sitemap Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Contact Us Chat Room Shoutbox News Podcasts Fantasy Cricket

International Test Cricket Discuss current and forthcoming matches; general cricket issues, women's Test cricket and First-class matches involving Associate and Affiliate members.

Reply Without Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 09:48 PM in reply to Occasional Fan's post starting "Why? There's no reason at all why..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occasional Fan View Post
Why? There's no reason at all why cricket should not be able to administer itself without wasting court time.
Why ?

Because as I previously said these judgments and sentences given by ICC referee's are going to be analyzed at great length by high powered barristers, attorney's and most likely some very senior judges as well.

Cricket would love to be administering itself, but unfortunately for cricket the media, vested interests of national team's and the apparent eagerness for legal heavyweights will never leave cricket alone to administer itself.

Darryl Hair, Steve Bucknor, Mark Benson and Mike Proctor currently find themselves parked on the scrapheap, cricket umpiring and referee is resembling a blood sport.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 11:16 PM in reply to Seamer's post starting "Now there are calls from the BCCI for..."
fade fade is offline
Into double-figures
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GOLD COAST
My main national team: Australia
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
We can no longer say that Harbhijan is a racist, but we can now officially say that Symonds is a liar.

Australians will now have to ask themselves. Do we want a liar such as Symonds representing our national cricket team?
You must be joking, you really think Harbhijan didn't say anything and a third of the Australian team reacted to nothing. I can't really see Harbhijan shouting out monkey I think he's a brighter than that, yet every word of the Australian players can be heard on microphone.

From Skysports

"However, Judge Hansen has also revealed he would have imposed a stricter penalty had he been made aware of a number of previous offences Harbhajan was involved in, which were not mentioned at the appeal because of problems with the ICC database and human error."

Funny how every ball, wicket and run and statistic can be recalled in cricket but a players record of behavior seems to go missing.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 30-01-2008, 11:45 PM in reply to acker's post starting "Why ? Because as I previously said..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,619
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Quote:
Originally Posted by acker View Post
Cricket would love to be administering itself
By that I hope you don't mean the ICC acker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acker
Darryl Hair, Steve Bucknor, Mark Benson and Mike Proctor currently find themselves parked on the scrapheap, cricket umpiring and referee is resembling a blood sport.
Agreed - their employers really have looked out for their interests.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 12:26 AM in reply to fade's post starting "You must be joking, you really think..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,292
A quote from an anonymous contracted Australian player made to a journalist

Quote:
"The thing that ****es us off is that it shows how much power India has," the anonymous contracted player told the paper. "The Aussie guys aren't going to make it [the accusation] up. The players are frustrated because this shows how much influence India has, because of the wealth they generate. Money talks."
From the article Cricinfo - Australia incensed by Harbhajan reprieve

Also the following quote from the same story apparently is opposite to what is being reported about the current feeling's of the Australian players

Quote:
The issue was resolved late on Tuesday night, when Cricket Australia and the BCCI issued a joint statement, saying Symonds and Harbhajan had "resolved" the issue and that both captains were also "satisfied with the outcome".
The satisfaction was very short lived according to the expert from this story Australian players irate after board yields to pressure - Cricket - Sport

Quote:
Rumours that the Australian cricketers were considering legal action in the event Harbhajan was cleared of racism charges have been denied by sources close to the team. Still, the depth of the disappointment felt by the players is great, and it could take some time for them to forgive those forces they deem to have undermined them during the controversy.
And I wonder why it was necessary to go through the farce of the appeal when according to this quote also from the Cricinfo story (1st link) sourced originally from "The Australian" (newspaper) the eventual conclusion had been worked out between the ACB and BCCI before the Adelaide test had concluded.

Quote:
The Australian reported the players had an often fiery meeting with Cricket Australia officials during the fourth Test and it was agreed the charge would be lowered if Harbhajan apologised.
And then not surprisingly this highly debatable quote Blunders rescued Harbhajan, says judge - Cricket - Sport - smh.com.au

Quote:
Justice Hansen said the ICC had not reduced the charge against Harbhajan. "That was my decision and my decision alone."
Then Frank Sinatra sang "I did it my way"

Last edited by acker : 31-01-2008 at 12:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 01:26 AM in reply to Seamer's post starting "Now there are calls from the BCCI for..."
sittingduck sittingduck is offline
WAT New Zealand A Selector
(SA) Passed Peter Pollock's 607 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
My main national team: New Zealand
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
As Symonds (no doubt due to CA pressure) dropped the charges, legally that amounts to Symonds admitting the charges were false.
No it doesn't, it means he did not want to pursue the racial abuse charge. Perhaps that's because he received an apology or CA told him to down grade the charges, it could be they thought he could get Singh on the lesser charge or singh had already agreed to admit to the lesser charge, or any number of other reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
And as such, Harbhijan has a perfect right to sue Symonds for defamation. And the ICC has an obligation to punish Symonds for bringing the game into disrepute.
Singh has the right to sue, yes, but he'd be laughed out of court.
I understand defamation law (in NZ anyway) backwards (having be accused of it on three seperate occasions, not convicted though).
Singh can't sue him, at the time Symonds made the report he honestly believed Singh had said what he did, giving him a solid defamation defense (try nad prove he didn't think Symonds called him a monkey). Also I don't think Symonds directly approached the media anyway, so you'd have to sue whoever first told the media about the accusations and then anyone who repeated the allegations, not just Symonds.
The ICC wont bring charges against Symonds, Singh's still be found guilty of calling Symonds a monkey it's just monkey is no longer being called a racial insult (in so far as this legal case is concerned). Using your logic no player can ever make any claim that anyone ever did anything wrong anywhere in case their claim is rejected and the accusing player will be sued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamer View Post
We can no longer say that Harbhijan is a racist, but we can now officially say that Symonds is a liar.
Now this can be called defamatory, you might get away with it though if A: you can prove Symonds is a liar in court (pretty tricky) or B: it's honest opinion, but then only with the proviso you're not making the claim out of malice towards Symonds (see defamation law is complicated).
We can't say Symonds is a liar because Singh was not cleared, he was found guilty of a lesser charge. It's basically the same as saying somone isnt' dead because the person who stabbed them was charged with murder but on appeal found guilty of manslaughter.

Last edited by sittingduck : 31-01-2008 at 01:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 07:13 AM in reply to sittingduck's post starting "No it doesn't, it means he did not want..."
DomainK DomainK is offline
(ENG) Passed George Lohmann's 1205 Test runs
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mumbai, India
My main national team: India
Posts: 1,295
I think the judge really hit hard at Symonds and the Aussies in his final report.

Judgment of Justice John Hansen

To Symond's statement that he takes objection to friendly gestures between opponents in a test match, he said he hopes that other international players do not share Symond's views (and I think if thats really what Symonds thinks, CA should sit down with him and have a word about ethics and behavior.)
__________________
My computer can beat me at chess.....but its no match for me at kick boxing.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 07:27 AM in reply to acker's post starting "Why ? Because as I previously said..."
Occasional Fan Occasional Fan is offline
Moderator
(NZ-captain) Passed Martin Crowe's 5444 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
My main national team: England
Posts: 5,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by acker View Post
Darryl Hair, Steve Bucknor, Mark Benson and Mike Proctor currently find themselves parked on the scrapheap, cricket umpiring and referee is resembling a blood sport.
They are all cases in which the ICC is one of the parties to the dispute, and in those cases, as I suggested above, the ICC clearly cannot adjudicate independently. It should be able to manage affairs between its own members just as many other professional bodies and regulators do. If it can't, it needs to take a long look at its own house. Maybe even hire a competent lawyer to run the disciplinary programme - it should not be necessary to contract this out to third parties.
__________________
Money won't buy you friends. But it gets you a better class of enemy.
Spike Milligan
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 08:59 AM in reply to Occasional Fan's post starting "They are all cases in which the ICC is..."
acker's Avatar
acker acker is online now
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG) Passed Trevor 'Barnacle' Bailey's 2290 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: now SW New South Wales
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: Western Bulldogs
Posts: 2,292
I'm already at a stage I want Malcolm Speed's scalp.

And I'm an Australian.

The ICC handling of this has made it more like a circus event rather than finding closure.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 31-01-2008, 11:49 AM in reply to acker's post starting "I'm already at a stage I want Malcolm..."
DomainK DomainK is offline
(ENG) Passed George Lohmann's 1205 Test runs
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mumbai, India
My main national team: India
Posts: 1,295
I think ICC has some serious explaining to do on how a decision taken by one of the match referees was overturned in such a way within days. The witnesses are the same. The only additional evidence was an audio piece which is mostly unclear and does not make much of a difference. There are some serious flaws in the ways in which disputes are being handled. The match referees, since they are hearing cases, should be made aware of how such things are handled. This time the judge makes it clear: the accused in supposed to be innocent until there is sufficient evidence of his crime. Proctor took a decision on basis of two Australian players who heard nothing but the m-word. How credible is that on the part of Proctor? That lacks common sense.

Also, CA needs to sit with Andrew Symonds and discuss about sportsman spirits. He just cant go about abusing players for showing friendly gestures. BCCI has also some very serious discussions to with Harbhajan. He had been left loose for a long time now. He needs to control his anger and concentrate on his bowling. Else, other players with a better conduct and better skills can fill his space.
__________________
My computer can beat me at chess.....but its no match for me at kick boxing.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 08:00 AM in reply to DomainK's post starting "I think ICC has some serious explaining..."
Aurelius Aurelius is offline
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed W.G. Grace's 1098 Test runs
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford, Perth, Australia
My main national team: West Indies
My other team/s: Australia, South Africa
Posts: 1,141
Soumya Bhattacharya has now called the whole affair "monkeygate." So now it seems that for anything that happens in the world, at any time, ever, all the journalists need to do is take a word and slap "gate" on it.
Reply With Quote
Reply Without Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:46 PM.

Page generated in 0.662 seconds (69.94% PHP - 30.06% MySQL) with 13 queries

Partner Sites: - pakistancricketzone.com | Fantasy Cricket | Cricket World Cup Images | Cricket 24/7 | Third Umpire | Indian Cricket League

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0