Pakistan 2005

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Shaka

Promoting Shoaib Malik to no 3 has paid off big time so far with a spate of MoM performances including 2 hundreds with the bat. Plus the resurrection of Shahid Afridi as primarily a bowler has had spectacular results. Not only has he bowled very well, but playing down the order he's hit some great cameo knocks at the death. Woolmer's insistence that he was worth a place as a big 'impact' player could not have been proved more accurate so far.

So yes, although we still need to stabilise the top order there is a feeling of optimism around Pakistani cricket these days, but it will need patience...things don't get turned around overnight.

Shaka - agree with most of your comments, especially about Woolmer keeping faith with Afridi and Razzaq, among others - this has definitely paid off. It is also interesting to note that most Pakistani players, when interviewed these days, credit Woolmer mainly with having confidence in their own ability, and keeping faith with them. This probably was a "quick win" for Woolmer, since improving fitness levels, fielding and batting techniques takes much longer than the three or so months he has been in charge!

However must give some credit to Inzi too - Woolmer has publicly stated (interviews and his own website) that promoting Malik was Inzi's idea, and in general Woolmer seems pretty pleased with the skipper's leadership attributes.

[Shaka]

I think Rachael probably hasn't seen Inzi in action for a while Maranello. Those of us who have watched him over the last year or two have a better idea of just how much he has matured and what a great batsman he now is. Not to mention a very fit one these days!

Everything else you say is right though but I think under Woolmer's guidance even Shoaib will be prepared to toe the line. I think as long as Inzi has Woolmer's respect (and that he certainly does) Shoaib won't be making any waves if he wants to play for Pakistan whatever their differences in the past...and to be fair, both have made mistakes.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by fair_&_balance

Talking of Pakistani fan, Biggest problem they have is their thirst of blood. Every Time team does bad some head has to roll. They wont rest untill someone is punished.

Not unlike Indian fans then ...

Actually, Indian fans (in general) have matured over the past 2-3 years - three consecutive defeats to Pak, and no calls for John Wright's head on the block! Had the case been reversed, Woolmer and/or Inzi would have been told to pack their bags by now . . .

Originally Posted by fair_&_balance

Biggest problem they will face in Test matches in AUS would be their batting lineup. Top order is truely fragile. This guy Yasir has no Idea where his off stump is.There is no consistant partner with him. Coming to their middle order,Yoyo & Inzi though are great batsman butthey are yet to show any spine when they travel to Australia. I hope this time they will do better. I am eagerly awaiting to see Asim though. Looks like best batting hope for pakistan . He is mixture of Great temprament and good technique.

I think you give Asim too much credit - he definitely has great tempremant, and a solid technique, but is not technically as sound as Inzi or as comfortable as YY. His key strength seems to be "mental toughness". Also, he knows his limitations and plays within them, not trying to be what he is not - this is the opposite to Yasir Hamid, for whom it has all been too easy, too soon! Yasir's technique is reasonable for an inexperienced bat, but shot selection is atrocious.

[Maranello]

Shaka, agree about Shoaib... in general, there are a lot of young and young-ish guys in the squad who are excellent team players: committed, enthusiastic and hard-working - Shoaib Akhtar is the only prima-donna! I have to keep reminding non-Pakistanis that his personality and team ethic are not representative of Pakistani cricketers (past or present) or Pakistanis in general. Overall he has achieved a decent amount over the past 7/8 years (125 Test wickets at below 25, and 185 in ODIs at 22 rpw) - but he is no Dennis Lillee or Imran Khan, and much less a Waqar Younis! He will become a decent team contributor only when he realises this and accepts his limitations as a cricketer!

In fact, it seems part of the problem is that he has believed all the mindless hysteria surrounding him, and feels let down himself when his reality does not match up to all the hype! Pakistani fans need to understand that consistently match winning and wicket taking fast bowlers like Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis do not come along as often as the number 72 bus, and Shoaib, though useful, is not in that exalted company - not now, not ever! Pakistan was lucky to have two all-time greats in Wasim and Waqar bowling in tandem so soon after Imran... we should be happy for the memories and stop treating every young bowler as the next Waqar! - or we would end up like the English fans, labelling every 'bits and pieces' trier as the next Botham for two decades, till finally the genuine article comes along 20 years after the original!

[Shaka]

Originally Posted by Maranello

In fact, it seems part of the problem is that he has believed all the mindless hysteria surrounding him, and feels let down himself when his reality does not match up to all the hype! Pakistani fans need to understand that consistently match winning and wicket taking fast bowlers like Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis do not come along as often as the number 72 bus, and Shoaib, though useful, is not in that exalted company - not now, not ever!

Yes that's pretty much on the button. But I do get annoyed when people keep reminding us that Shoaib isn't Wasim or Waqar. It's time we just judged him as Shoaib Akhtar and stop comparing to anyone else. His prima donna attitude doesn't need anything more than firm handling. I know that one of the questions put to Woolmer on his web page was about Shoaib lookiing overweight and Bob shot back that Shoaib was extremely fit. To be honest I think if Shoaib is going to stay in the team he's probably been told in no uncertain terms that his career has to come first, parties and the rest of it much later. Anyone not prepared to give 100% or prove their fitness before a series shouldn't be considered, but I'm sure the team management are implementing that as standard policy now in any case.

[admin]

I have moved this thread from the Pakistan forum to the Men's Cricket forum which is a neutral forum and allows non-Pakistan supporters to be frank with their views of the Pakistan team.

[Maranello]

Coming back to Pakistan's prospects in the longer term, can we seriously challenge for no.2 (let alone no.1) in Tests with our current batting line-up?

I concede that in ODIs we are already probably no.3 or joint no.2 alongwith a few others...and can even be no.1 in a year or two..but most of our batsmen just do not have the technique, the patience or the application to bat through 2 or 3 sessions!

[Shaka]

I think at the moment we are #4 at best in test cricket. I wouldn't even attempt to make the claim we are #2. India and England are both better sides with I think England probably slightly better balanced of the two.

As for batting through 2 or 3 sessions, Farhat and Taufeeq did just that for a few matches and it made us look a different team. Consistency is the key though, and until we have a couple of openers who can make the position their own, we'll be fighting it out with Sri Lanka and South Africa for 4th spot. In fact Sri Lanka are probably ahead of us too in test cricket.