Best Batman and Bowler in The World?. >

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Mike Small

1) Dravid 2) Harmison 3) Flintoff 4) Ponting 5) Flintoff

I am very much with Mike on this one...

I would choose Flintoff as the overall player as he is a contender in nearly every category.

[Maranello]

Taking into account both individual brilliance, flair and perseverance, as well as contribution to the Team and actually winning matches, I would go for:


For tests:

1. Dravid
2. Harmison
3. Kallis
4. Ponting/Dravid (for his catching in the slips and close to the wicket to the spinners)
5. Murali (for the effect he has on the whole team and country for that matter, and the sheer magnitude of Tests he has won single-handedly.... has definitely made SL into a worthy Test team from a joke outfit a few years back)

For ODIs:

1. Tendulkar
2. Murali
3. Flintoff
4. Collingwood
5. Flintoff (no competition really . . . )

[Mike Small]

I have never really understood the theory behind branding Flintoff is a one-day specialist all rounder - Kallis might well be the more accomplished test batsman out of the two but as a bowler he has no comparision with Flintoff in tests or even ODIs for that matter - his bowling is a far, far more reliable asset to the England team than Kallis' is to the South African team. Flintoff is genuine strike bowler, and I don't regard Kallis as one in all conditions.

[Maranello]

Mike, I think you have wrongly inferred that I label Flintoff as an ODI specialist.. I definitely do not! But his impact on ODIs is much greater than in Tests... he has won more ODIs single-handedly than he has Tests, and in my subjective opinion, I would say he is England's second most valuable Test player, after Harmison.

You also seem to imply that Kallis is an ineffective strike bowler - I disagree, though you have a good basis for your argument. Kallis can play for SA and for many other teams either as a batsman or as a bowler... true, his type of bowling is not suited to some conditions, but in helpful conditions he is a genuine threat, and a proper strike bowler.

So in summary, Flintoff is definitely a better Test bowler than Kallis, granted...but would Freddie be selected for England purely as a batsman in Tests? No, or not yet anyway.. Hence he is not a pure all-rounder in Tests ie someone who can be selected for the team as either/or... (interestingly, he has played ODIs as a batsman-only, which is remarkable and bears out his ranking as the great ODI all rounder around)

Sure, Flintoff is probably the best one-day player on current form, but IMHO only in the top 5 or top 10 in Tests...and only the world's third best Test all-rounder, after Kallis and Pollock.

[Mike Small]

I would include Flintoff in my first choice England XI even if he were able to do just one thing, either bat or bowl.
And I wouldn't do the same for Kallis - on present form his bowling is not penetrative enough to get him in the South African side purely as a bowler, and the same can also be said of Pollock's batting - he would not in my opinion be able to break in any team purely on his batting ability.

Kallis is a batting-allrounder.
Pollock is bowling-allrounder.
Flintoff is a genuine all rounder, he's an allrounder-allrounder

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Mike Small

I have never really understood the theory behind branding Flintoff is a one-day specialist all rounder - Kallis might well be the more accomplished test batsman

Mike I agree with all of your post except maybe, Flintoff is the better player than Kallis full stop, Batting, Bowling or Fielding.

Ern

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Mike I agree with all of your post except maybe, Flintoff is the better player than Kallis full stop, Batting, Bowling or Fielding.

Ern

Ern, take your point, but many, including me, would disagree with that.. in Tests, Flintoff is marginally the better bowler overall, but Kallis is by far the better batsman.... and the results, the statistics and the ratings etc do back us up

[Pubuman]

Me, Murali, Me, Me, Me hehehehe.. okay seriously tho:


Dravid,Murali,Kallis,Gibbs,Kallis

[Aussie-Yank]

1) Gilchrest - Yes I can see the arguments now - before you do check his 2005 record against any batsman in the world - He wins. Lost count how many games he has turned around for Australia. Match winner as a batsman are hard to find in test matches. (Plus under Erns conditions he does not fit into a catergory)

2) Glen McGrath - Day one Ashes - Speaks for its self.

3) Kallis - Will be over taken by Flintoff, but for now still Kallis in my books.

4) Ponting - Close second to Gibbs - Loyalty with Aussies though

5) Gilchrest - Class - Match winner in any form of the game.

[stereotype]

Batsman- Tendulkar- Still the best...best technique........most feared.....sends shudders down the hearts of teams when he is on his game

Bowler- McGrath- By a longer way than people think......i think he is three times better than the closest pace bowler and better than Murali and Warne too

Allrounder- Gilchrist- ahead of Flintoff.....Gilchrist can change a game in a matter of overs and like Tendulkar is feared by everyone.

Fielder- Symonds- absolutely amazing fielder.......Ponting, Collingwood and Clarke are great but Symonds has the best attributes of all these players.....fast, athletic, velcro hands, giant arm and great aim

out of all of these i think it is down to either Adam Gilchrist or Glenn McGrath ahead of Tendulkar......

hehehe thats a tough choice but here is how i see it

Australia would still be the best team in the world without Gilchrist. Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Katich and Clarke can all score big hundreds when in full flight but i believe without McGrath our bowling attack would crumble completely....

so due to favourable circumstances i say Glenn McGrath is the best cricketer in the world