Ponting quaking in his boots

[Goatman]

2 further comments:-

"AUS do not rate 'hostile' fast bolwing."

Clive Lloyd learn't that style of play when he toured AUS. Before that WI quick bowlers were largelythere to kick up some rough for the spinners. Thomson was one of the most hostile bowlers ever. Gillespie mixes it, as does McGrath and Lee is in there specifically to rough the batsmen up. The fact that bowlers are capable of becoming greats without being notably venomous doesn't mean that venom is not a very effective tactic. Its like saying that the only way of bowling slow is to ignore the spin and work on accuracy. That would be plain daft. Both accuracy and spin have thier place, and neither is "better" then the other.

"Viv Richards would have struggled in the UK".

Come on Ern - you must have seen Viv play over here, at least for WI even if not for Somerset. Did you ever see him struggle. He diddn't know how to. Rach is absolutely right:- no matter how fast you bowled, or what pitch was prepared - and those old WI test pitches were absolute stinkers - much more uneven in bounce than most ENG ones, so God knows what the first class pitches were like.... - Viv would back himself to wallop anything short. You can tell he did, because he never once put a helmet on........

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Goatman

If I remember correctly one thing that inspired Langer to pick out Harmison (I've tried looking up the article on cricinfo, but I can;t find it - it may have been an interview on the beeb) was a ball he bowled to Hayden early in the series (2nd test?). It was short, Hayden went to hook as he so often does and the ball just seemed to be on him in a flash. He half played at it, half bailed and lobbed the ball to third man. Think back to Grievous's early career with me (cue wobbly effects and tinkly music). How often did he get batsmen caught at third man? At times, it seemed the only way he could take wickets. .

Actually Langer first rated Harmison while he was the overseas player for Middlesex (see his book "outback to outfield"), the Durham captain at the time David Boon, said he had something special to unleash on him. Harmison was apparantly young, quick and fiery, and Langer rated him from that point on.

[Goatman]

Now that is interesting....

All I remember was this interview during the ashes (it may not even have been Langer if I'm honest, but it looks like I was right), and the strong response it got from my kid brother. I do also recall the "caught at third man" thing being pointed out more than once that summer though........

[Ernest]

Well Goatman I agree with you over the bowling, Australia have never ben shy to try and knock a blokes bonce of, and still would if they had the tools.

I think Englands"mix" of attack,will see them through, quite often the bowlers domig the short stuff will not get the wickets, but the chamge bowlers reap the rewards.
I have seen this enough with England, I have seen Gooch make opening partnerships of over 100, against the mighty West Indians, only to get out to a bowler like Viv Richards, and the team out for under 200, that's the result of substained cery quick short pitched bowling.

What you say about Viv Richards is interesting, and yes I remember him well, but I have a litle niggle at the back of my mind.

Brian Lara, one of the worlds greats, Flintoff yorked him leg stump in the 1st innings, I think Old Trafford, and in the second innings, a ball reared from not to short of a legnth, and all that Lara could do, was fend it away for a catch..I saw that ball, and wondered what any batsman in the world could do about it, and that includes Viv richards, I put it to you Goatman, what do you do,when you see a ball coming at you about 93mph, making a bee line right for your chin, no time to hook the ball?

[Goatman]

Your quite right Ern, some balls are just unplayable. That was surely what sets Viv aside though - even the fastest ball he just seemed able to slouch back and slap it for six - balls that us mere mortals would have filled our trousers and simply get tonked by. If he was hit more than once or twice a series there is no way on earth he could have got away without a top on. He would goad bowlers of even Thomsons pace - go on son - I've got no hat, no chest padding and I wear the thinnest gloves I can find- hit me if you can!!

They diddn't often hit him....usually the ball would end up in the car park.

[Beny]

I was going to write a long post dealing with our young talent but i'm buggerd. But you're right we dont have a Glenn McGrath or Jason Gillespie coming through.

I cant remember who pointed it out but I agree that we will know more over the next 6 months and wont really be able to tell until the Ashes itslef. (but this is fun anyway)

I have to admit that I have goten a bit carried away. Yes Flintoff is a great player and Harmision is a great bowler (can't say much about the rest of your team but hey). Whether they can beat the acknowlaged best team in the world is a differnet matter. I dont think so but there is always a chance.

Winning a few matches, 7 against a rabble of a team, dosent make you god's gift to cricket yet (thats our tittle )... A good team yes, but I still say India is better.

Now is the time for the English team to experiment with their team. Swap some players around the order and tri some new stratigies. A good group of players itslef wont win the ashes. You need to be both flexible and smart.

In the Aus team you could have Gilly batting 1 or 7. Lehman might come on for a bowl. Hayden and Langer are the best in the world at working as a team. If Langer is going slow Hayden will pick up the pace and vice versa. Mabey They will come out smashing or perhaps play defensive. The field may be extremly un orthadox, leting runs through for the sake of wickets or perhaps the other way around.We have won on pitches from Sri lanka to Perth so we can be flexible.

For that reson the pitch wont matter much. The Aussies can play strong straight down the ground, Square of the wicket, anywhere. Watching Hayden bat latly he can hit a bowl for six down the ground, play a great cut, hook and he is the best sweeper on the planet.

[Goatman]

I think few would call them the best (apart from you Ernie, you old stirrer ), but they are better than they have been and showing every indication they will get better. I would place them after AUS and IND but probably now before SA. SA will probably win at home, but though thier home grounds are a fortress that repells most invaders and it will be no pushover. In ENG I would be predicting us to turn them over quite convincingly.

I think all of us, both sides of the equator, can look forward to a better and more satisfying Ashes series than that to which we are used.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Beny

I have to admit that I have goten a bit carried away. Yes Flintoff is a great player and Harmision is a great bowler (can't say much about the rest of your team but hey). Whether they can beat the acknowlaged best team in the world is a differnet matter. I dont think so but there is always a chance.

Winning a few matches, 7 against a rabble of a team, dosent make you god's gift to cricket yet (thats our tittle )... A good team yes, but I still say India is better.

Beny
Change of tactics, coming in us from 9- 0 clock, rather than bandits from3-oclock, makes no difference, Mc Grath is still between 34 and 36 tears old, heard both mentioned.

I know Flintoff is a great player And Harmison a great bowler.

New attack, bombing us with India, well there is a team, 11 batters and no bowlers, that as always been thier problem outside of India.

Australia bit the same, but I must say you have the ageing McGrath, limping along, but still accurate, you have got Gillespie(we have one on this board as well)I dont know much about him, looking forward to seeing him bowl.Warne the mane danger, still alegend.
Lee if he bowls at the old Trafford, he may be on line for the stumps at Lords.

So what have we left the Australian batting, well you have Ponting, and a couple more, that is what will be interesting, out bowing against Austraia'a batting.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by ernest

New attack, bombing us with India, well there is a team, 11 batters and no bowlers, that as always been thier problem outside of India.

With you here Ern...India are a great batting side, but they can't really challenge for Test series as they are not able to bowl good sides out, away from home.

You can put all the runs on the board in the world, but test matches are won by bolwers. If you can't take twenty wickets consistently, you cannot win Test matches.

In ODI's where batting is more important, wickets become less crucial. By having four bowlers in the top twenty. England have one of the most potent bowling attacks in the world. They will get twenty wickets on all but the most placid surfaces.

It is the lack of a proven-quality seamer that means I can never see India really being the second best side in the world.

[Beny]

Ponting and a few others?!!

Who are the two highest run scores in county cricket at the moment?? Would it be Elliot and Hodge? Both Aussies who cant make the Aussie team.

Here are a few of the Up and commers, all younger than 24.

Aron Bird:

Aaron is another of the new breed of talented young cricketers that NSW continue to produce. Hailing from Taree in Northern NSW, Aaron has produced some blistering spells of fast bowling this season for his club, state and country, highlighted by his Man of the Match performance for Australia in the final of the Youth World Cup against South Africa. Aaron's whippy action enables him to generate great pace and bounce on the flattest of wickets and his powerful hitting down the order all add up to an extremely bright future.
Aaron won his claim to fame when he struck schoolboy hero Michael Slater on the helmet during a first grade match between North Sydney and University of New South Wales and forced the former International to retire hurt. (Cricket NSW, June 2002)

Michal Clarke:

Michael Clarke already boasts a possibly unique claim to fame in Australian cricketing folklore: he was anointed as his country’s next captain before he'd played a single Test. For now, he must content himself with being the world’s most thrilling batsman not to be getting a game. A ravishing shotmaker with an unshakeable temperament, Clarke does not so much take guard as take off. His arrival is typically the cue for a string of wristy, audacious flashes through the offside. Crowds warm to his innocent exuberance, to the buzz and energy and daredevil edge he brings to the crease. All the while he radiates a pointy-elbowed elegance reminiscent of a young Greg Chappell or Mark Waugh. Like them, Clarke has waited long and uncomplainingly for a Test opening. Unlike Chappell and Waugh, who learned the ropes in domestic and county cricket, Clarke has cut his teeth in Australia’s one-day side. His impact in pyjamas was startling: he racked up 208 runs in four games before he was finally dismissed, and now averages a tick under 40 at a strike rate approaching 90. His bouncy fielding adds to his run-value, while his left-arm tweakers cajole nearly a wicket a game. A cricket nut since he was in nappies, Clarke honed his technique against the bowling machine at his dad’s indoor centre. Affably down-to-earth, he is meticulous about his hair – which is blond and always looks freshly showered – and adores fast cars. Meeting David Beckham counts among his life’s wishes. He is proudly patriotic too, wearing an Australian flag on the back of his bat, and recently signed a record-breaking A$1.25million deal with Dunlop-Slazenger. "On captaining Australia, I’d love to," he commented early in 2004. "It’s another goal and something I’ll have to work hard for." Selectors would be wise not to dilly-dally too long over his Test ascension; future Australian captains don’t grow on trees.


Nathan Hauritz:

A player of exceptional potential, Nathan Hauritz is an off-spinner who made his ODI debut for Australia at just 20. He has long been one of Australia's most accomplished junior players, having combined several years of representation in state underage teams with appearances in a succession of national sides. He even enjoyed stints as the under-19 captain of both his state and his country, performing with particular distinction in the former role when he led Queensland to victory in the national under-19 championships in 2000-01. More recently, he has become a regular fixture in Queensland's first-class and one-day teams. He bowls with exceptional accuracy from a short approach to the wicket and a neat, balanced action. Though the Bulls often play on pitches ill-suited to slow bowlers - and have not produced a Test spinner since 1989 - his emergence is provoking genuine excitement across Australia. It would be a surprise if he did not make a huge mark in the sport. (John Polack; updated April 2003)

Shaun Tait:

genuinely fast –if slightly wayward - bowler, Shaun Tait made his first-class debut for South Australia and made an immediate impact with many reporters identifying him as a Test-class bowler in the making. In 2003-04 he was named as the Young Cricketer of the Year at the Allan Border medal ceremony, and he also received the ING Cup’s Best New Talent award – largely as a result of 8 for 43 against Tasmania. He was rewarded with a call-up to replace Brett Lee in the Australian squad in Sri Lanka, less than three seasons after he had been struggling to make an impression in Adelaide C-grade cricket.


Paul Rofe:

Cant find any info but he opens the bowling for SA

Shane Watson:

Hulklike, blond and spiky-haired, Shane Watson should be the shiny embodiment of modern-day Australian cricket – if only that body didn’t keep cracking up. Vivacious in all departments, he is the quintessential young man in a hurry. As a boy he played for Queensland Under-17s at 15, then went to the Academy. As a youth he upped and fled to Tasmania, desperate to gatecrash first-class cricket. Within five games he had clubbed his maiden hundred; within a year he was picked for Australia. Talent-spotted with the 2003 World Cup in mind, he ultimately missed out with stress fractures of the back – the same injury that riddled his teenage years. Until then his batting had lacked nothing in swagger and only a little in gap-finding artifice, while his bowling looked willing if docile. Apart from a nude photoshoot in an arty men’s mag he faded swiftly from view, bouncing back last summer with four hundreds from No. 4 for Tasmania. He smashed an unbeaten 300, too, in a club game for Lindisfarne; then, irked by opposition attempts to thwart him reaching his triple, immediately ripped out 7 for 29. He remains the cleanest of hitters and, several remodelled actions later, decidedly sharp with the ball. Now bound for Queensland again (he hated the cold), he is a hot tip to become Australia’s next champion allrounder – not least in the opinion of Australia’s last one. "He has all the attributes," noted Alan Davidson in 2002. "A fine physical specimen, good athlete; just give him time." Now 22, the time seems ripe.
Christian Ryan (April 2004)


Cameron White:

Ginger-haired and level-headed, Cameron White has long seemed destined to play a significant role in Australia’s future. Only the precise nature of that role has baffled his admirers. Nagging legspinner? Solid middle-order bat? Intuitive skipper? Or a bit of all three? The over-eager Shane Warne comparisons that festooned his first-class arrival have long since died away. Indeed White is a peculiarly unAustralian-style legspinner, tall and robust, relying on changes of pace and a handy wrong’un rather than prodigious turn or flight. He bowls a good line and does a neat line in self-deprecation too: "There’s no flippers or anything exciting like that in my repertoire," he professed a while back, "I’m just trying to get my leggie right." What is not in doubt is his cricket sense, nor his maturity. Captaining Victoria in 2003-04 at the age of 20, the youngest skipper in their history, he won rave reviews for his cool head and warm handling of more hardened contemporaries. For all that, he remains a largely unassuming country lad. Picked to tour Zimbabwe when Stuart MacGill withdrew for moral reasons, White cancelled a fishing trip to attend the press conference then boyishly shrugged aside questions about the circumstances of his selection: "I don’t really know very much about politics." He was chosen as much for his no-frills batting as his bowling; David Hookes, the late Victorian coach, felt White’s best chance of representing Australia was to earn a top-six spot. As far back as December 2002 his hero, Shane Warne, had predicted: "I think he’s a [future] Australian player provided he sticks to the way he plays and doesn’t try to be someone different." Exactly who that someone is should become clearer any day now.
Christian Ryan (June 2004)