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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 07:45 AM in reply to Beny's post starting ""I just wonder would Australia..."
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Goatman Goatman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
There is no way that England is a better team than Australia. Dont believe your own hype. Last time we played you guys you couldent even get past Hayden and Langer. In 2005 it wont be much different.
I would agree with the first three statements, but significantly doubt the fourth. Come on Beny:- in that series the new ball was taken by new boy Hoggard and old man Caddick. Support bowlers were an obviously talented, but basically (sorry Ernest) completely crap Flintoff, the unfortunate Jones, a very young, raw and poor looking Harmison (but even then I recall Langer and one or two others saying how difficult he found batting against Harmison) and Giles with rock-bottom confidence and deep in defensive mode. That attack would not have shifted these NZ/WI sides, and it doesn't surprise me it struggled to shift Langer and Hayden.

Today, Hoggard is the only constant in that attack, and even he is a lot more wily than he was. He has abandoned a pacey, wicket taking apporach for pure support bowling, and that suits him far better. Flintoff is unrecognisable. Anderson and Jones have both produced some good spells, and are not unlikely to take a step on in the next 18 months - I would not bet aginst at least 1 of them becoming a genuine test performer in the forseeable. As it is, they are still better than any of the support bowlers were during the last series. Giles was bowling in ENG this summer as he always has in Asia, where he has always looked like a testmatch quality bowler, and has had very good returns. He's making the ball loop, and actually making it spin! This is a very different Giles to the one you know, and so long as his confidence is mantained and Vaughan keeps using him to attack that will not change. Why to God he hasn't been allowed to be so attacking in the past, I don't know as he has always been great in Asia when asked to do so.

Anyway, my points are this:-

1) even if ENG get whitewashed, this is still a far better team than the last one. Unrecognisably so IMO. Which makes me doubt the series will be quite so one sided.

2) We should not believe our own hype. Neither should you. And if you think hype isn;t central to the AUS sporting effort, you're living in cloudcukooland.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 09:47 AM in reply to Beny's post starting ""I just wonder would Australia..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny

Id also like to point out that we could loose all our matches from now until early 2006 and stay top of the table.
Well what does that say to you?that would be living ON th past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
ys you beat them, fair play, but that was doen to the skill of Ponting, Australia did not half dig some holes for themselves.Still you beat them, "
The skill of ponting? He dident do all that much.
Australia did not get it all thier own way on that tour, and Captain Ponting, was able to motivate the team, when thing where not going right,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
England is a better team than Australia. Dont believe your own hype. Last time we played you guys you couldent even get past Hayden and Langer. In 2005 it wont be much different.
Different altogether Beny,Simon Jones who was very much in form when he went To Australia, suffered a very bad injury, and was sent home, Flintoff was also injured, but played on as much as he could, but was inefective, not the same this time round.
Australia are the bookies favorites at the moment, well this is good, keeps us on our toes, and lulls Australia into an already false sense of security.
Thing is Beny, with respect the result willnot matter the same to you, as if what you said earlier is correct, you can wallow in past Glories until 2006.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
The Best thing about our attack is the way its structured. An accurate bowler, a quick, decently accurate bowler, a world class spinner and the fastest bowler in the world. Individually they have problems, add them together and they all compliment each other
This is from a slightly earlier post of yours.

Your dammed right they have problems,
You have an ageing accurate bowler, can't argue with that,a quick, decently accurate bowler, oh I see an ordinary up and down bowler, yes a world class spinner, without the piches he will need to get much turn from.
fastest bowler in the world., I did not know you had a new pace bowler in your side, I though for a moment you meant Lee, silly me, we both know that is wrong, in particular one Pakistani gentleman, and besides a bowler is only allowed one set of stumps to bowl at.

Fraid it,s down to your batting to see if they can keep our bowlers out, including the world no 1.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 09:56 AM in reply to Goatman's post starting "I would agree with the first three..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatman
Support bowlers were an obviously talented, but basically (sorry Ernest) completely crap Flintoff
Flintoff has never played against Australia in Tests, he was injured for the last Ashes series.
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 10:29 AM in reply to Alison's post starting "Flintoff has never played against..."
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Cool

. You guys are assuming that your attack will get better.

. You discount that at 36 McGrath may still be a good bowler.He has a low impact action and is in good condition after missing almost a year. You also assume that we wont have any ready made replacements. You dont watch our. state cricket. I know pleanty of excellent bowlers are playing state and for Aus A.

"Australia did not get it all their own way on that tour, and Captain Ponting, was able to motivate the team, when thing where not going right,"

.... Are you serious? Of couse we dident get it all our own way, it was a shocking set of conditions. The Team, Lehman and Warne especialy played well and so we won.

"2) All things come to an end, and one day AUS will no longer be considered the best team in the world."

True, but dont discount that australia has one of the best youth development programs in the world. We also have a very high participation rate.

"Thing is Beny, with respect the result willnot matter the same to you, as if what you said earlier is correct, you can wallow in past Glories until 2006."

Not at all. (mind you, you guys are still on about the rugby) But lets assume for a second that england have an awsome bowling line up. You still have to beat our batsmen. And your batting line up is not even close to the Aus Line up.

The team we take to england in 2005 may not be as good as it has been. That dosent mean that it wont still be formidable. We may have some younger inexperianced players but we will still have plenty of peaked proformers. You guys havent beaten us in a series for decades, long before the players we see today emerged. McGrath Gillespie and warne may be gone!! or INjured!! but there are plenty of talented people ready to take their place.
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 10:49 AM in reply to Beny's post starting ". You guys are assuming that your..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
You guys are assuming that your attack will get better.
We're assuming they'll get better because they have been doing so for the past year and most of them are still fairly inexperienced, it's not exactly an unreasonable assumption to say that they will get better, particularly since they've said they need to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
You discount that at 36 McGrath may still be a good bowler.He has a low impact action and is in good condition after missing almost a year.
I'm sure he is still a very good bowler, but at 36 time is running out for him, he's going to have to retire at some point and at that age it's not unreasonable to think it will be sooner rather than later.
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 11:51 AM in reply to Alison's post starting "Flintoff has never played against..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison
Flintoff has never played against Australia in Tests, he was injured for the last Ashes series.
I stand corrected. Looking over the scorecards, I find that the support was (in addition to those I mention, Fred excluded)White, Silverwood, Tudor and Dawson.

Good God, no wonder we got stuffed!

This compounds my point even more though! Surely if Alison and I opened up for ENG we would do better than bloody Silverwood and Tudor (which happened in the third test)......

The teams bear no kind of comparison, beyond the fact that this present team is immesurably superior.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 12:03 PM in reply to Beny's post starting ". You guys are assuming that your..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beny
. You guys are assuming that your attack will get better.
You are making a far more foolish assumtion in that you seem to believe our attack has not got any better since 2002. Looking at the third test (which I have just done) I reckon that if ENG turned up with 3 pigs, a hamster and a goldfish as bowlers they would be better than that side. They certainly wouldn't be any worse. Silverwood and Tudor. God, I'd forgotten that........It is incontravertable fact that this team is already better than the last lot you saw. Even if they played at 50% of what they did this summer they would be better than they were then. Which is why your assumption that they would make no more progress against Langer and Hayden seems utterly foolish.

I think they probably will get better, but only time will tell. I can no more say they will than you can say that they won't. Or than you can say the AUS attack won't decline.

As for Harmsion, you have said he has an action that prevents him from bowling consistently. Have you actually watched him bowl since 2002? It would seem not. His action, which was gangly and angular then, is now as smooth and repeatable as any I've seen. The comparisons to Ambrose while he was in the WI started before he took all those wickets. Did you realise that? He looks very much like Ambrose these days, with the obvious differences of him not being black and not wearing a gold chain. As Viv Richards says:- "England have dug up a diamond in that one".
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 12:08 PM in reply to Alison's post starting "Flintoff has never played against..."
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Ernest Ernest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison
Flintoff has never played against Australia in Tests, he was injured for the last Ashes series.
I thought that was the case, was not sure if he had played a match and was injured in it.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 12:12 PM in reply to Ernest's post starting "I thought that was the case, was not..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernest
I thought that was the case, was not sure if he had played a match and was injured in it.
Ah, the fact remains though that if he had played he would have looked talented and done crap. that was the way it cut for Fred early on!
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 30-08-2004, 12:17 PM in reply to Goatman's post starting "I stand corrected. Looking over the..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatman
I stand corrected. Looking over the scorecards, I find that the support was (in addition to those I mention, Fred excluded)White, Silverwood, Tudor and Dawson.

Good God, no wonder we got stuffed!
Did any of our bowlers impress at all on that tour? I could only follow the reports in the papers at the time and can't remember.
 


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