The Spirit of the game

[Beny]

Originally Posted by FF

I am sorry but your statment is naive and wrong. Politics and sport do mix, and that is a fact...

Flanflinger mate,

This is the sort of thing which set me off in the last zimbabwe thread and I think Zainub felt the same way.
Now without letting the words fly again... Not everybody in the world shares you're oppinon here and there are some good reasons why not. I can't see stoping a sporting match having an effect on Zimbabwe and neither can a lot of other people. Many of the top Cricket jornalists over here are bereting England for not just getting on with it.

[Occasional Fan]

Beny - I'm quite sure that not everyone agrees with the group of people who would like to see this tour scrapped. But the UK is as close to unanimous on this as I can ever recall seeing in any opinion poll. The BBC asked the question earlier this week and 98.5% of respondents said that this tour should be scrapped. I don't know how big the sample was - typically they get a couple of thousand callers, which is about the size used for election polling in the UK and the statisticians tell me that that implies a margin of error of about 3.5%. Now, for a radio poll, the respondents are clearly not representative of the public in statistical terms, and the statisticians would never be prepared to hang their reputations on a poll of this nature. But the fact remains: never have I seen such a one-sided result in any opinion poll in the UK. The reality is that, with all respect to the huge numbers of people in the world who disagree with us - and we're probably talking a ten-digit number here, bearing in mind the view from the sub-continent - the Brits do not believe that this tour should be happening. Rightly or wrongly, they are taking that view on a political or moral basis, and one with which many people outside the UK disagree. I fully support the right of everyone to try to get the Brits to see things differently, but people should not under-estimate the size of that task.

As things stand, the ECB is out of step with opinion in its home country, and I can't see it being allowed to remain out of step for much longer: the pressure there for some action to bring the ECB - which, as most people see it in the UK, where cricket is a minority sport, is more importantly a representative of England and Wales than it is of cricket - into line is huge and, I think, ultimately irresistible. I would expect, some time before this issue comes up again, that the ECB will be forced, by UK public opinion if by nothing else, to advise the ICC that it will no longer be bound by the regulation which prevents it exercising moral and political judgment in determining which teams to play. My own view on that is that it would be the right thing to do - merely taking back to itself the same rights and obligations which any other international business operating from the UK has.

One thing's for sure: this matter will not be closed at the end of next week. The present tour, I fear, has simply brought a problem so far into the spotlight that inaction on the ECB's part is not an option.

[Beny]

OF- As I said I don't wish to get into this again here. You're more than welcome to express your views, anger, disdain, whatever. However I object to the accusation that anybody who dissagrees with that said view is naive or ignorant. Lot's of bad stuff goes on in this world and anybody who claims that they are somehow more enlightend to it all are really just kidding themsleves.

[Occasional Fan]

Don't think I've said that, Beny. In fact, quite the reverse - I've positively encouraged contributions with other opinions. You're right about a lot of bad stuff happening in the world, but too much of that comes through ignorance. It's when people actually talk to each other and - more importantly - listen to each other that mankind does some of its best stuff. Quite understand if you don't want to discuss this issue as well.

Moving over now to the second test thread, where I am sure you've been posting the news!

[Beny]

Originally Posted by OF

but too much of that comes through ignorance.

Or worse a partial knowlage of facts and not being able to understand what they mean and the way they all fit into the puzzle of human experiance and exsistance.

[flanflinger]

Beny,


I stand by my statement that is naive to consider that sport and politics should not mix, as the fact is they do.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=politics&r=67

It would be great to have them as two seperate identities. But they are not. Evey meeting that the ICC holds, politcs come into play as diffrerent parties lobby for their best intrest. Every time the ECB, the BCCI, the ACB committe meets different points of view will be debated, and issues resolved often involoving comprimise. Every time my club commitee meets, different groups gather togethet to get their candidate elected 1stXI Captain.

Politics is everywhere, in this case the ZCU which is a political tool of the Zimbabwean Government it is more obviuos.

[Beny]

Sport and INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS are two very seperate entities.Cricket is a game. It makes people happy (unless you loose ) and I hope it stays that way. As I see it, so long as the British goverment are keeping their noses out of it then it is not political. Regardless, Naive is a provocative word to people who dont see themsleves as idiots and it is not necessery for you to use it.
Thats all I am saying and I wont be posting on this thread again. Your welcome to make counter arguments and I will read them but I prefer to leave this sort of stuff for my normal life.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Beny

As I see it, so long as the British goverment are keeping their noses out of it then it is not political.

Apart from givig "advice" they are. The problem with this tour is that I can guarantee that the same is not the case with Zimbabwe. The ZCU is a puppett of the Mugabe regime...

I personally would prefer that a Government did not have a say in where players can or cannot tour. Which is why I would prefer that the ICC changed their stance.

[top edged for 4]

Beny



I was wondering is there a point where you would feel that the sports and politics boundary would be crossed?



I personally disagree with you over Zimbabwe but I have reached the point where I think England should just go, stop making a fuss and try to make the best of a bad lot, play the matches, give no interviews and leave

[flanflinger]

Finally...


There are two reasons to pull out of a tour as part of the Future Tours programme

1. Safety and security concern for the players

2. Direct Instruction from Government

As far as I can see Political influence is encouraged by the ICC....while at the same time claiming sport and politics should remain seperate.

Had the British Govrnement had the power to intervene - this tour would have been called of istantly...and the ICC would have been happy about it.