Who is the greatest fast bowler?

[Rachael]

Wow, Don - I know you admire Walsh but I never thought you'd put him in ahead of Ambrose. Why's that?

Also.. where does Andy Roberts fit into the pantheon? I never saw him bowling at his peak.. but he seems to have been as canny as any in the mid 70s.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Milo

Bradman's main problem in the Bodyline series was sheer frustration at not being able to score quickly enough due to the fielding positions (something he knew he needed to do if Australia were to have a chance). Three of his dismissals were due to his stepping back outside leg stump and trying to hit a ball that pitched four foot out side leg stump through the off-side. Hardly an indictment for Larwood's bowling. Good captaincy for sure - but great bowling, not sure of that. Is bowling to a field/strategy that unique/impressive in the history of cricket?

Milo, I agree with a lot you say, great captaining yes, but Milo Larwood had to pitch the ball in the right spot, to tie up Bradman for his captain, Bradman was not happy playing fast short pitched bowling, Jardine sussed that out I agree, but Karwood was thrained and trained again to bowl that devestating line.

Short pitched bowling may sound easy, but think of the likes of Bret Lee, he maybe bowled short balls faster than did Larwood, but half his balls are not on target, and are just swatted away, that INHO Milo, is the difference , between a great fast bowler, and an ordinary one.

I wonder Milo, how Bradman would have handled the likes of Lilee, Thompson, Holding, Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, and even Harmison, food for thought.

Ern

[The Great DonTalon]

"I wonder Milo, how Bradman would have handled the likes of Lilee, Thompson, Holding, Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, and even Harmison, food for thought."


well he averaged 56 in that bodyline series of 1932-1933and that great stuff..how much did windies bats average in 75-76 at their first go at llilee and thompson and max walker ??..how much did England get against the same opposition in 1974 ?

Throughout the 870's and 80's there had been some terribly fast men and few of the worlds best batsmen of the time did well and in fact few of them averaged 50 in any of those series. So Sir Donald Bradman did well during 32-33 on horrible pitches which were uncovered and left to teh elements more often than not.

[The Great DonTalon]

Hi Rachael I 'll tell you who I rate Walsh way higher than Ambrose..for one walsh had more variation and he swung it more as well as had way more stamina..Ambrose limped out of test cricket ( literally) and Walsh was still extremely fit when he retired in 2001.


Now here are some interesting facts I have been showing the lads here in the pub:

I took into consideration time and career span here ...Ambrose made his test debut on 1988-04-02 and retired 2000-09-02
I considered the tests Walsh played between the said time that Ambrose played which is stated above.


In that time Ambrose played 98 tests took 405 wickets at 20.99 a piece.
In that time Courtney andrew Walsh played 105 test took 412 wickets at 24.67 a piece.

So this is why I constantly wonder how Ambrose can be considered a great and Walsh cannot be consider as such. Also these figures will show that Walsh played 17 tests before Ambrose showed up on the international scene and if the math is done it will show that he took 71 wickets in those 17 tests at 21 runs a piece..hardly standard. After Ambrose retired on 2000-09-02 walsh played 10 more tests and took 36 wickets at 27 a piece ..again hardly standard.


Walsh is great Rachel.

[R W S]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Walsh? I admired the guy immensely.. but not even Don would chalk him up as a great fast bowler.

The Don speaks

Originally Posted by The Great Don Talon

My FIVE greatest fastbowlers of all time are:

1.Wasim Akram
2.Malcolm Marshall
3.Dennis Lillee
4.Richard Hadlee
5.Courtney Walsh

I await your apology

[Rachael]

LOL - Don never ceases to spring a surprise. I was SURE I'd seen him say something to the contrary not so long back. Maybe he was simply disputing that Walsh was particularly quick when compared to the very, very fastest bowlers of the world.. Can't recall.

[Maranello]

Interesting article on Larwood on cricinfo.

Originally Posted by Larwood

"I wouldn't say I was told to bowl leg-theory. I was asked to do it and I complied. In any case, I was convinced that I wouldn't get many wickets any other way".

[Pubuman]

But I'd have to say that the greatest fast bowlers, indeed any bowler, especially with the new ball have a great dependency on their partner(s). Clearly the greatest fast bowling combination in the modern era was the West Indian foursome. Holding, Marshall, Garner and Roberts. Then come the menacing duo of Lillie and Thompson, then maybe Akram and Younis. But one bowler who dominated almost alone is Fred Trueman, without a doubt the greatest English fast bowler. As for Larwood, well he was quick, no doubt and accurate, but I think McGrath would surpass him for accuracy, and certainly any of the four Windies above for pure scariness. but of course nowadays batsmen have helmets and what not. Larwood was extremely talented, no doubt but to say he was the greatest is pushing it.

Here's how I see it:-

1. Holding (complete and deadly, no question)
2. Trueman (Fiery, fast accurate and simply nuts)
3. Marshall (Simply complete)
4. Lillie (A 50 yard run is enough for anyone)
5. Akram (in the right frame of mind, control and skill)
6. Roberts (For pure menace)
7. McGrath (He is without doubt a robot!!! no man has that much control!!!)

[Ninjaman]

1. Marshall (the finest of them all)
2. Ambrose
3. Akram
4. Holding
5. Lillee

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

1. Marshall (the finest of them all)
2. Ambrose
3. Akram
4. Holding
5. Lillee

I'm pretty much with you here Ninjaman. I haven't seen enought of Holding and Lillee to rate them, but from what I've seen of them in highlights etc. I wouldn't want to have faced them. My top five would be:

Ambrose (just loved the guy, by far my favourite bowler of all time)
Marshall (once again, a great ambassador for the game, sorely missed)
Akram
Hadlee
Donald
Waqar

These are the bowlers who would make me put my drink down and concentrate on the cricket as soon as they came on. You just knew something was going to happen!