Who is the greatest fast bowler?

[R W S]

A very interesting statistical anaysis has been done by Rajendra C Parikh over at our friends site Cricbuzz here

His final ranking is somewhat surprisingly
1. Hadlee

2.McGrath

3. Marshall

My subjective insticts would place Holding, Walsh and Marshall in the top three. What's yours?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by R W S

My subjective insticts would place Holding, Walsh and Marshall in the top three. What's yours?

Walsh? I admired the guy immensely.. but not even Don would chalk him up as a great fast bowler. He was a tireless workhorse, and as such, a great foil for Ambrose.. but Ambrose was surely the more complete bowler. Holding? Cricinfo applauds him for "bowling ramrod-straight at high pace and to a full length".. and I think that sums him up: he was not anywhere near as complete a bowler as Marshall. Your third pick, however, I rate as worthy :-)

There's obviously a real danger in looking purely at the stats.. in that the value of any bowler to a side goes well beyond wickets taken and runs conceded. Take Waqar Younis, for instance. He stands out in that list as the most profligate of bowlers.. but that doesn't even begin to tell the full story of his limitations: as Nikhil points out elsewhere on this board.. Waqar was (throughout his career) as much a liability as an asset. Take Pollock, by contrast, and you're looking at a bowler whose stamina, perseverence and dedication to the cause never brought the same acclaim.. but whose achievements (and status) are of an entirely greater order of magnitude.

If I had to pick an attack OF three great bowlers then I might have McGrath and Ambrose taking the new ball with Marshall on at first change... but if I had to single out the three best bowlers? Much tougher: the three I mention might compliment each other well.. but I'd be hard pushed to single them out above some of the others on that list (especially Hadlee).

[Ernest]

1) H Larwood.
2) F Trueman.
3) M Holding.

Ern

[Milo]

Larwood? How do you work that one out Ernest?

For the record, of the bowlers I have seen - Ambrose is the best on a bad batting wicket and Marshall is the best on the batting paradise.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Milo

Larwood? How do you work that one out Ernest?

I can see were Ernest is coming from, Milo - he'd certianly be in my top 5. He made a huge impact in his day, and had he not been injured/carried the can for 'bodyline' (he was injured, but then not selected for England afterwards) he would surely have got more than his 78 test wickets. Incedently, I understand he was a bloody good bowler without using 'bodyline' too. I've just found that he took 1,427 first class wickets at an average of 17.51! Not too shabby!


My pick would be Holding or Marshell.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Must be ambrose, fast, aggressive and downright scary-looking. Mcgrath for meanness, marshall for everthing else

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Milo

Larwood? How do you work that one out Ernest?

For the record, of the bowlers I have seen - Ambrose is the best on a bad batting wicket and Marshall is the best on the batting paradise.

Well Milo, 4 reasons,

1) He helped England actually do something possitive, win back the Ashes in Australia.
2) He kept the great Don Bradman quite, exposing his weakness against the fast short ball, that was some achievement on it own.
3) He was a captains dream, he was not a maverick, Jardine would set him a task, and he would come up with the goods.
4) he was a poor man done good, coming from the Nottingham coal fields, in a class ridden game, as it was at that time, he set all that aside, worked hard to get very fit (with the help of Jardine), and was able to compete with the best, and was better than most.

He must rank with the all time greats.

Ern

[Maranello]

I think no one would disagree with Marshall in all-time top three...on most criteria, he was the best...

I stuggle with trimming it down to two others, but looking only at post-war bowlers, would probably go for Holding and Imran Khan ... these three being probably more lethal, over a longer period of time and in more trying circumstances than some of the others, IMO. Of course, wouldn't dream of playing all three together - this would be a very unbalanced attack if one only had these three to bowl with over a whole day!

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Well Milo, 4 reasons,

1) He helped England actually do something possitive, win back the Ashes in Australia.
2) He kept the great Don Bradman quite, exposing his weakness against the fast short ball, that was some achievement on it own.
3) He was a captains dream, he was not a maverick, Jardine would set him a task, and he would come up with the goods.
4) he was a poor man done good, coming from the Nottingham coal fields, in a class ridden game, as it was at that time, he set all that aside, worked hard to get very fit (with the help of Jardine), and was able to compete with the best, and was better than most.

He must rank with the all time greats.

Ern

Hardly the reasons to put him number one fast bowler of all-time though Ernest; 1, 3, and 4 would apply to loads of other bowlers. It is also a myth that he exposed a weakness in Bradman. As I said on BBC board yesterday, Bradman's main problem in the Bodyline series was sheer frustration at not being able to score quickly enough due to the fielding positions (something he knew he needed to do if Australia were to have a chance). Three of his dismissals were due to his stepping back outside leg stump and trying to hit a ball that pitched four foot out side leg stump through the off-side. Hardly an indictment for Larwood's bowling. Good captaincy for sure - but great bowling, not sure of that. Is bowling to a field/strategy that unique/impressive in the history of cricket?

[The Great DonTalon]

Harold Larwood controlled the greatest batsman of all time during that great series of 1932-33 of Australia but England. I will give him honorable mention as his bowling in that series is the most hostile buy a fastbowler in the history of the game.

My FIVE greatest fastbowlers of all time are:

1.Wasim Akram
2.Malcolm Marshall
3.Dennis Lillee
4.Richard Hadlee
5.Courtney Walsh