"Stupid, reckless and complacent"

[Pete]

The people moaning aren't the ones who agreed to the schedule. England aren't the only ones complaining anyway, other players around the world are saying stuff about too many games. It's the pointless one day matches that's the problem, take out some of them and there's more rest time.

[Maranello]

I am all for reducing the number of meaningless one-day games, though England do not play as many as most other nations. Still there is too much pointless cricket all around, and not enough 5 Test series between the stronger nations. However, I feel blaming the schedule just after a defeat is in bad taste. In any case, Boycott can only rarely be accused of possessing good taste or decorum - bitter, self-serving rants are more his speciality!

[Rachael]

OK.. having started all this I ought to chip in with some thoughts of my own.

{i} Cricket's started pandering to the MTV mentality in recent years: the players still play the game for the only reasons that have ever counted (those underpinning the game, notably a desire to come out on top in all of the individual tussles encountered).. but teams have come under ever greater pressure to pander to a mentality (embodied by 20-20 cricket) that sees fun, entertainment and the sensational as the be all and end all of ALL sport - and celebrity matchwinners as the embodiment of this ideal.

{ii} As a result of {i} team selection and match strategies have threatened to become as myopic as that of the much vaunted "galacticos".. who cram the side with celebrities with a reputation as "matchwinners"... and basically gamble that if you field enough such celebrity matchwinners... you will ultimately win!

{iii} In reaction to {i} and {ii}... coaches are afraid of their sides becoming becoming one dimesional... and are desperately struggling to come to terms with the implications of Plan 'A' failing... with wha happens when you can NOT simply bat the opposition out of the game in double quick time so that your aggressive bowlers can have attacking fields and rip out the opposition.

{iv} Following on from {iii}, yet unwiling to break with the galacticos approach entirely... coaches are just obsessing about ways of having their cake and eating it: in order to get around a top order of prima donnas... they look to find batting down to no 8 or 9... and in order cope with prima donna bowlers who only turn up to attack.. they look for bowling from someone in 1-5 and from no 6.

{v} As a result of all the above.. cricketers like Atherton and Kirsten... and Fraser... and Bicknell... and Kumble... and Khan... cricketers who are anything BUT galacticos... whose strength is in pulling teams through when Plan 'A' fails.. are basically becoming an endangered species.. falling as they do between the sensationalism of Gayle, Laxman and Akhtar... and the utility of Bravo, Razzaq, and Boje.

I think it's self evident that the most famous football club on the planet has disappeared up it's own backside and can't find it's way out... but I don't think things are quite that bad (yet) in cricket. I do suspect, however, that the routine capitualtions from around the world.. and the sorry but commonplace sight of sides just failing (dismally) to make their opponents toil... is indicative of a sport that's already on a slippery slope.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Beny

1. Flintoff loseing patience and going for a hook shot that was'nt there, getting out. This after reciving a big roar from the English Fans who must have thought he was here to save them.

All playes have done that Beny, I don't think he lost his patience, was just a bad shot, at the wrong time.

That roar has been rewarded more often than not, we have lost one game,"Big Deal", I hope the Aussies are gloating, and underestimating Flintoff and co,, I would like us to be underdogs.

And it has been said Beny, that Flintoff is a batting all-rounder, and I have said he is not, even though he has been best bat for England for the last 12 months, look at the averages for 2004, and while there, look who is heading the bowling averages in South Africa, not hard to figure out who.

People are always talking about the class of other players, while Flintoff is delivering the goods, more often than not.

Originally Posted by Beny

I must say it... AND THIS IS THE TEAM THAT IS GOING TO RECLAIM THE ASHES?
Australia rarely 'collapses' bacuse our middle order will stand up and do the job they know they have to.

Good stuff Beny, just what I want to here, see how your middle order stands up to Flintoff, South Africa has not, if he aint taking wickets, they aint scoring runs of him.
And when Harmison comes back to form,the Aussies will know they have been in a scrap.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

Originally Posted by Maranello

I am all for reducing the number of meaningless one-day games, though England do not play as many as most other nations. Still there is too much pointless cricket all around, and not enough 5 Test series between the stronger nations. However, I feel blaming the schedule just after a defeat is in bad taste. In any case, Boycott can only rarely be accused of possessing good taste or decorum - bitter, self-serving rants are more his speciality!

indeed. it is just bad tase for sure. a very sore loser who has been carried away with his team's successes.

Ernest IMO your being a bit wishful..... it seems the successes have got to many people's heads. i totally agree with beny. Ernest you say you would like england to go in as underdogs. im sure your wish will be fullfilled because have no time since the last ashes have england ever been the favourites and they wont be the favourites this time either. dont worry.

[Beny]

I would like us to be underdogs.

Don't worry, you are!

Good stuff Beny, just what I want to here, see how yoor middle order stands up to Flintoff, South Africa has not, if he aint taking wickets, they aint scoring runs of him.

Not even you would claim that Flintoff is the best bowler in the world and the Aussies have stood up to more than him over the past few years.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Beny

Not even you would claim that Flintoff is the best bowler in the world and the Aussies have stood up to more than him over the past few years.

No Beny, he is not the best bowler in the world, but at the moment he is the best England bowler in the England team, if Harmason had bowled to the same standard, South Africa would not be one up now, of that I am sure.

Who much better have Australia faced than Flintoff in the past year or so, and please don.t say Kallis , and please dont say Pollock , a once was bowler, who has not a great deal to offer these days, other than being accurate,

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Who much better have Australia faced than Flintoff in the past year or so

Sorry Ern, I know this was addressed to Beny, but IMO, the bowlers better than Flintoff faced by Aus include: Akhtar, Murali, Ntini, Vaas, Kumble and Kaneria. That's three spinners and three fast bowlers. As per yuour request, I have not included Pollock in the list

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Sorry Ern, I know this was addressed to Beny

No problem, the more the merrier

Originally Posted by Maranello

but IMO, the bowlers better than Flintoff faced by Aus include: Murali, , Kumble and Kaneria.

I think that Akhtar if he was more consistant would be a world great, one to watch anyway, but better than Flintoff we will have to wait and see.

I can't really argue about the others

Vaas has not got the bite IMHO.
Ntini, is OK in my opinion, to tell you the truth, I don't know how to rate Ntini.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

I rate ntini over flintoff.
LAlso harbajan is a bit of an aussy killer