"Stupid, reckless and complacent"

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Beny

1. Flintoff loseing patience and going for a hook shot that was'nt there, getting out. This after reciving a big roar from the English Fans who must have thought he was here to save them.

Beny I don't think I have ever read a post quite like this, quite simply what is your logic? for your remarks.

To put matters simply regarding Flintoff, he has a better batting average that any of the Australia teams, except Ponting, LOL .25 of a run seperates Flintoff from the captain of Australia.

LOL The oficials are going stupid, silly things have gone and Give Flintoff the MOTM twice for nothing.

Averages::http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...es/default.stm Yes Ponting has scored 2 more runs over 4 games.

[flanflinger]

Ern,

Great thread to dig up.

Originally Posted by Beny

I must say it... AND THIS IS THE TEAM THAT IS GOING TO RECLAIM THE ASHES?
Australia rarely 'collapses' bacuse our middle order will stand up and do the job they know they have to.

Just goes to show how wrong one man could possibly be..

[John]

Flintoff is improving but he needs to improve to include in himself in the top allrounders.
5 wicket Test career Flintoff 1
Chris Crains 13
Pollock 16
Kallis 4 and mere 22 Test centuries.
Flintoff obviously needs to step up a gear with his bowling because 1 5 wicket haul after fifty Tests is poor. He's is now one of the best but its taken him time. Better late than never!

[Cricket Girl]

Flintoff takes few five wicket hauls because the rest of our pace attack is so good that he doesn't often get the chance. I'd rather he carried on getting cheap four wicket hauls of top-order batsmen than he started taking expensive five wicket hauls made up of tail-enders.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Cricket Girl

Flintoff takes few five wicket hauls because the rest of our pace attack is so good that he doesn't often get the chance.

Quite true... Murali has taken 46 5fers (so far) while Hadlee took 36, when you have no other bowlers in your team you will end up taking a lot more 5fers than when you have four other bowlers capable of doing the same. This does not in any denegrate from their bowling as to get the iwckets they have when being the lone bowler is astounding...

I would like to see Freddie getting more though.. however at the moment Flintioff has the ability to take the key wicket that makes a big difference

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Ern,

Great thread to dig up..

I took the risk with what I have wrote for 12 months, I stood by what I said, and still do, fact is we can't lose the series.

Originally Posted by John 66877

Flintoff is improving but he needs to improve to include in himself in the top allrounders.

Flintoff career has been in two parts, the first when he was raw, but I saw something in him, I sort of knew he would come good one day, and he did.
I think looking over the last 20 matches, his figures will tell a different story, both in batting and in bowling.

He did not have a good time with the bat in South Africa, but he bowled well, coming only one wicket behind Hoggard.
He is I think the leading wicket taker in this Ashes series so far, so he has come a long way.

England persivered with him, and are now reaping the rewards, Australia never showed much faith in Brett Lee, and had they done so, they would not be on so steep a decline.IMHO.

[John]

Unfortunately history judges by the whole record. To pick and choose is to diminsh others crickters. Flintoff has done exceptionally well he has turned things round to be one of the finest crickters on the planet at the moment.
Hoggard should also be mentioned for the way he has turned things round.
Its funny how all the Great bowlers get 5 wickets :
Akram 25 times
Ambrose 22
Botham 27
It tells its own tale. Circumstances may play a part but the good bowlers will get their share.

[Irish Left Armer]

I think Flintoff has only become a genuine striker bowler in the last year or so. And now he has the added advantage of being very good at getting reverse swing.

I think there are a good few 5 fors in Freddie's future.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Irish Left Armer

I think Flintoff has only become a genuine striker bowler in the last year or so.

The first signs that Flintoff might one day have something to offer with the ball were in the WI 18 months ago... but the tour to SA last winter suggested slow progress: the moment he started pitching the ball up he started losing his control... and although effective, his figures flattered him.

This summer has come pretty much out of the blue.... both in the reverse swing... and in the level of pressure he's achieving when things are going for him: lots of comparisons with Courtney Walsh in the Telegraph of late...

[Zainub]

Andrew's great season isn't quite a case of one great summer doesn't make a swallow (or whatever) he's had quite a decent run for the past three English summers stretching back to South Africa's tour to England in 2003...but it's away from home, especially in places like the Sub-Continent that he's still got to prove him self...plus he's never played test cricket in Australia either. In SA and WI though his bowling was quite his usual self - reliable , consistent and potent.

However...when it comes to his batting ..most of his extended form periods have come at home - and if you take out a couple of good innings in NZ and WI he's generally struggled for runs every where in the world out side of England ...he looked hopeless in India in 2001, and only marginally better in Sri Lanka in 2003. And not all that good in SA either. He's got to improve that record.

Plus his over all test record still sees both his bowling and batting average nicely places in the mid 30s...ideally you want the bowling average to be in the mid 20s and the batting average late 30s at least if not the 40s. He's got to look to make this happen at some point in time - although to be fair to him, he would have had a much better bowling average if each and every catch of his bowling would have been taken ...he has nothing but him self to blame for his batting record though...