Aussie fans are a credit to their nation

[Occasional Fan]

I understand some of your points, Rachael, and I certainly agree with one of them - some of the "lyrics" are puerile. But some of the greatest comedians I've seen have made people laugh with puerile jokes, so I can't condemn the Army purely on those grounds. As for intimidation by the Army or being forced to enjoy cricket in the same boisterous way that they do ... well, all I can say is that I've never felt either of these things, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'm going to end this one now - I might never get you to change your view, but during the 2006/7 Ashes tour I do encourage you to have a look at the front page (not the sports section: front page of the news section) of the Courier-Mail (Brisbane), the Western Australian (Perth), the Age (Melbourne), the Sydney Morning Herald and Adelaide's paper, the name of which eludes me at the moment. Last time around, all of them carried reports and photos of people enjoying themselves (whilst their team folded up exactly as advertised). The Courier-Mail had a great picture of some Queensland policemen and women wearing English style coppers' helmets while the Army tried on their QP caps, and, far from being offended by "God Save Your Queen" and songs referring to balls and chains, published a selection. I sat at the Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth tests surrounded by Aussies. They were bemused by the Army's enthusiasm in the face of inevitable defeat (and some pretty poor performances by the team at times as well), but offended? Not that I could tell.

[10dulker]

i went to gabba last ashes test day 1 and they brought a good atmosphere to the ground even though they were getting thrashed they sang all day.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

yeah some of their lyrics are in poor taste to say the least.
but i think (and hope) it is just a bit of fun

[flanflinger]

Rachael,

I feel again your comments are unfair, biased and basically wrong. I have a Barmy Army T-shirt in one months time I will again be in South Africa with the Barmy Army. You have made sweeping statments about the Barmy Army - does that include me? Should I also be sat in a room and told to consider how I am "debasing" myself?

Their songs can be rude but are mostly sung injest. They are not meant to be taken as agressive songs (like football chants), they are not sung in that way at all.

I think you have no right to comment on them when you do not travel to Test matches in your own country. These guys travel everywhere. They will be in Pakistan next year, knowing that there will be no beer. Why do they do it? Because they love Cricket and they love England.

From what I can tell there are several other people who like them to. Local fans always get involved, there is never any trouble as they do everything with a great spirit. Local people as they bring in bonuses to the local ecomonmy. The England Cricket team also love them as they make away games feel like Home games.

Originally Posted by Rachael

it's just that I'm finding cricket grounds (like so many other areas) are increasingly outside of my comfort zone.

How can you say that when you have never actually been to a ground? I have never felt intimidated at a Cricket ground, Far from it they are possibly the least intimidating places. I admit I have never been to a sub-contient game where the atmosphere may be more charged. But you certainly won't feel intimidated in England.

Originally Posted by Rachael

anyone not on their wavelength and wanting to enjoy their day out as they do feels that they are in the wrong place... and under pressure to do as the rest are doing - and that's not a "live and let live" situation!

What are you basing this on. Personal experince - doubt it. When I was in PE two years ago there were 9,000 England fans. Everyone waving flags and singing. Best atmoshpere ever, Barmy Army chants all day. Nobody had a bad day that day (even though we lost), I was with a friend of mine who I would consider very conseravtive, we were in Castle corner and I did say that she may find it a bit intense. But she loved it, and told me she had a great day.

[Rachael]

Very nicely put, Maranello: you summarise my thoughts better than I did myself.

One further point of reference come to mind: following disgraceful scenes of racist chanting at a recent major football match involving English players in Spain there was widespread outrage. Many of us were appalled that between the referee, the captains and the managers there was not enough gumption to call the game to a halt.

Participants in sporting contests deserve protection from that sort of thing.

Looking through the barmy army lyrics one finds equally grotesque abuse.. much of it personal (especially in relation to Shane Warne) and in large parts on a spectrum from the merely tasteless (endless references to convicts and attacking people's cultural heritage) to the down right offensive (calling individuals "twats", associating entire nations with acts of bestiality and so on).

I'm appalled that Vaughan doesn't simply march his team off the field and wait for the perpetrators to be evicted and I know full well that I would be too appalled and enraged by sight of players having to contend with such antics to ever enjoy being present for the cricket.

The same would also go, I suspect, for the vast majority of older cricket followers who would have been able to go to any match anywhere in Britain prior to the emergence of the Barmy Army and have been pretty certain that {a} they would not have to witness anything of this nature; and {b} they would not witness anything they would feel uncomfortable witnessing with a child or with their parents / grandparernts.

Sensitivity to others is what appears to be missing.

[dagonz]

I can understand your uncomfort with some of the support heralded from stands all over the world, but i also think you are blaming the wrong people.
For the comfort of supporters with families, we should be allocated family areas in venues, not a random seating policy where groups such as the 'Barmy Army' are booking seating in groups and not being catered for.
Communication between grounds and 'official supporter groups' needs to occur to ensure comfort for everyone, which can happen. If what they are doing is still legal yet sometimes offensive then distance them and cater for them in their own area. Leave the rest of the stands for the kids to feel safe and enjoy their cricket.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Intimidated is maybe not the right word, but, as someone from a minority, if I came accross a large group of semi-dressed drunk people at or outsided a sports stadium loudly singing such songs and deriding foreigners, wrapped in their union jacks and the flags of st. George, I would feel concerned and out of place.

I remember going to watch Pakistan Verses England a few years back, and if you think it is scary being a Pakistani fan, you should try being an England fan. Horns blowing, Pakistani flags waving and chanting whenever there was a 4 or a 6. However, have a chat with them and you find they are mostly quite nice people.

Intresting that Rachael picks out the abuse of Shane Warne. Funnily enough the Australian players on the whole take the comments quite well, and in the spirit is meant and Warne takes the mpstcomments annd enjoys it as much as anyone. Brad Hogg stood on front of us at PE, and a few comments were made and songs sung , how did he react, simple he similed waved and laughed and bantered back.

The next day the Australians arrived at the airport with us, the English fans went up, shook their hands took photos. Hogg in particular sat amongst a number of England fans and loved chatting away.

Originally Posted by Rachael

Sensitivity to others is what appears to be missing.

Rachael, I do not criticise the way you enjoy Cricket (apartt from the fact that I think you should try watching the game rather than limiting yourslef to listening, reading and commentating) why do you so vehemtlly oppose how others harmlessly enjoy the sport? Maybe you should try following your own advice?

[Occasional Fan]

Some good points there, dagonz. Two examples:

1. One good one: At the Gabba, every block in the ground is designated as either one where drinking is permitted or one where it is not. That, I think, is a requirement of Queensland's licensing law, but it makes it pretty easy to find a less boisterous area of the ground if you want one for yourself or your family. (It's not only a family thing: I can certainly do with some peace and quiet myself sometimes.)

2. One less good one: At Kensington Oval last year, the English supporters who bought their tickets from the only official outlet in the UK were all allocated seats in one area of the ground. The Barmy Army made sure it was a boisterous one, and there was no escape for the supporters (self included) who could have used the occasional break.

My feeling is that allowing mixing within the crowds is a good thing to do - I enjoyed sitting with the Aussies in Australia and with the Barbadians in Bridgetown in 1998 much more than I enjoyed being confined in close proximity to the Army in Bridgetown in 2004.

[Paoli]

Great points Dagonz.

It is true that Rach should watch the game because I couldn't sit through five days of cricket, either on TV or at a game without the Barmy Army.

There chants are hardly "insulting" or "offensive".

Just incase you haven't realised, the Aussies can take a joke (even Glenn McGrath) and I'm sure Brian Lara's men can.

They are not out to just give it to the opposition. It is just about having a little fun, getting a little tipsy (or very drunk!!) and making the cricket a more enjoyable spectacle to all involved.

[Paoli]

Rach the football was disgraceful. I'm a mad football fan and for the first time I wanted a game to end. Especially when you take into account 2 great footballing nations.

A player in the old Australian NSL (National Soccer League), Francis Awaritife, who is english of nigerian descent i may add, played at Melbourne's two major franchises Melbourne Knights and South Melbourne. When he played for Melbourne Knights, whom i may add he served them brilliantly, 200 games 90 odd goals, he was called racist names such as "monkey"---and they were the ones I am allowed to say.

When he transferred, the Knights supporters turned on him like you wouldn't believe. All this because he was black.

The Barmy Army aren't a racist organisation---the problem with Australia's old football system is that all the teams were racially powered. And that isn't a good thing.