"Unusual" England cricket team

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Maybe then the English cricket authorities or the wider community need to do something? But what, and will it work? I am not sure. .

M,

As I understand it you are a Pakistani fan based in the UK, my question to you is what wouod have made you support England rather than Pakistan? Who will you encourage your children to support?

When I have been to England games versus Asian nations, I do notice Fathers taking their sons to see the game, dressed in Pakistani or Indian shirts. Is it a cultural thing that although permenatly based (and often born here) there is still a harking back to their origins. How long will this go on for, will we still be seeing British Asians supporting thier team of origin in another two or three generations time?

Just a side note during the U19 world cup the England players Bilhal Sahfayat was criticised because although playing for England he spent a lot more time in the Pakistan dressing room baecuse he had "more in common" with the pakistani boys.

Amla has played for South Africa in this series and because of their sponshorship by Castle, he has had to have a different shirt.

Apart from Hussain, many British Asians have found it difficult playing for England, is there something within English Team culutre that makes it harder to be part of that team and this is then reflected in perfomance on the pitch?

[Zainub]

Amla has played for South Africa in this series and because of their sponshorship by Castle, he has had to have a different shirt.Apart from Hussain, many British Asians have found it difficult playing for England, is there something within English Team culutre that makes it harder to be part of that team and this is then reflected in perfomance on the pitch?

In case of Amla, I have to say that him not having the Castle Lager logo on his shirt had absolutely nothing to do with culture, it was to do with faith, drinking is strictly not allowed in Islam, and any sort of association with it is also prohibited. Going by the way some fans have made fun of his appearance, it is not hard to see why some players would find it difficult to adjust in a team not of the same origin as theirs. Nasser Hussain was an exception because he didn't practice his faith in way you would expects most Asian to do, I do not at all wish to criticize him or anything, but just pointing out as some one else too did, that he was much more Western then other British Asians. Looked western too, and made no secrets of his full and complete patriotism for England.

Is there something within the English Team culture that makes it harder to be part of that team? May be yes, may be no, who knows, no one can say with certainty, for me personally the whole point is irrelevant.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

How long will this go on for, will we still be seeing British Asians supporting thier team of origin in another two or three generations time?

Probably..... but you will also see many supporting England aswell. as Maranello said, iam one of these British asians you talk about who do not support England.

As more asians make it 'big' in the outside world, it helps gives my generation something to relate to, something to be proud of. you must know one of the big things for us teenagers is music, now there are more and more asians making it big in the western music industry and adding our cultural flavours to the western music. this gives me something to relate to, and something to be proud of. I dont even remember his name, but im sure you have heard of that super rich indian who has a house like Buckingham palace or something and is like the 3rd richest man in britain, he knows that steel company. things like this make us feel proud of our roots and our heritage..... i think the generation above mine (ie 20 and thirty year olds now) were trying so hard to become accepted within English culture, they became more anglo-ised (is that even a word?). This generation did not have huge Asian role models in the western public eye to look up to. my generation does and as i said make us feel proud.

Is it purely down to the History of Empire, that many of these cricket fans are unhappy to be seen to support England?

to an extent - yes. but it is not the full reason. personally i dont like many of the british sports personalities. ie. flintoff or the despicable Rooney.
Living in England it gets on my nerves how the media treat things and overhbype everything. ie. rooney has scored against switzerland and croatia - 2 powerhouses of international football and he is now the next pele... crap like that . im sure it is true of many media and sports pundits to overhype things, but i only really experience the british side of it.
Then there are the football hooligans that don't really give england a good name do they?

But the biggest reason is to do with intolerance by lots of british. I know for a fact MANY are not like this, but there are lots of people who still are. and during the 60's when many asians immigrated to england, the intolerance was on full diaplay. i hate the way there are quite a few holiday makers who will go to spain or portugalk etc. and just live like it england with the sun. they expect the spanish to speak english to them and dont even bother trying to learn anything about the culture, which is most annoying. and then they make judgments. i know the majority of youths in my generation are extremley intolerant and make fun of anything that is a little bit 'alien' to them.

I know many, if not most of british people nowadays are not like that, but there are still vast volume of people who are still like that, especially in my generation.

I think its a combination of wanting to learn more about my heritage, feeling proud of it and basically hating the english notion of intolerance that still lives in many societies today. For me, i feel it is important to learn about my roots.

saying that, there are many british asians who will fully support england and are proud of it. i give the example of one of those artists in the music industry. in one of the videos there is a party and on the wall their is draped the indian flag, next to the british flag. many of my friends in their late twenties will support england in both footy and in cricket, almost as much as india.


I hope i have not offended anyone with what i have said. it is just how many of me and peers do feel.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

The case of amla is great testament to my point. when many of my schoolmates saw his beard the first thing they did was laugh and make fun of it.....


is there anything wrong with that beard?

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1

I think its a combination of wanting to learn more about my heritage, feeling proud of it and basically hating the english notion of intolerance that still lives in many societies today.

RDNo1... The only problem I have with what you said is with this. I actually think intolerance is not something that is an english notion at all. Britain is an Island that is used to accepting other nations.

For thousands of years different peoples have come to these Islands and been absorbed. Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, through to today Afro-Craibbean, Asian, East European etc- in London there are apparantly representatives of every nation on earth.

I myself trace my roots on my fathers side to the Norman and invasion, while my mothers family were Portugese Pirates who landed on the Isle of Wight.

Yes there are a minority of mostly ill-educated idiots who think that they have a divine right to be British, just casue they have white skin. But they are a minority, and it saddens me that they have coloured your perspective.

I like to think that being British is to be tolerant of immigartion. I love the fact that tomorow I shall go to lunch in Southall and buy spices from all over the world. I think it's awesome, and I feel that I am in the possibly not vocal Majority, who have sadly had their voices crushed by an ignorant and bigoted minority.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1

is there anything wrong with that beard?

Looked like W G Grace to meet - who is one of the most famous Englishmen. 120 years ago many English people would have sported similar beards.

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

Intolerance FF is actually a HUMAN notion....
when i say the british notion of intolerance, i mean the way the few british people will go about implementing that notion. i am sorry for making it appear that intolerance is only a british thing! i know that is not the case!

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

Exactly FF, im sure many would have had that beard before. yet nowadays it is ridiculed!

[Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1]

But they are a minority, and it saddens me that they have coloured your perspective.

not just mine but any others. yet if you got to experience the youth today, i feel it is actually a MAJORITY. yet in your generation, and the generation before mine (infact maybe you are part of that generation, dunno how old you are FF) it is thankfully a minority. yet i certainly feel in my generation, intolerance is actually growing.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Rahul_Dravid_is_No.1

The case of amla is great testament to my point. when many of my schoolmates saw his beard the first thing they did was laugh and make fun of it.....


is there anything wrong with that beard?

Absolutely not Rahul, and to admit, I was, still am, and will remain to feel deeply uncomfortable by the way some Asian cricketers are made fun of for their appearance, this is less prevalent in the actual players, but wide spread amongst fans. And all this extends to beyond beards as well, I have heard a few commentators (well known ones as well) pass out the most unreasonable of remarks about Sikh cricketers wearing turbans.

Most outsiders often think they are only passing out harmless little funny statements, but they don't realise how quickly people can be offended by them. A very good example of this was when Dean Jones was here in Pakistan to cover the Ind-Pakistan series, he arrived in one of the games to the stadium on a donkey cart, and although that too him and his colleagues sounded only harmless little fun, it was taken seriously by the national press, and he was criticized widely for it. Not to mention the fans were outraged, with editorials full of people condemning him and his alleged "degrading" attitude.