Pakistan vs India 2nd test Kolkata 16-20 march

[Maranello]

FF, I take on board what you say, but I still think Afridi did well today. His little cameo really did relieve a lot of the pressure from Pakistan, which they had after being in the field for so long, and for that alone he deserves credit. Its not as if our other openers are any better in terms of their results, and at least Afridi can at least, every once a while, totally destroy the opposition, as he did today.

I agree that we are seeing a much more consistent Afridi. He definitely has more to his game now than ever before, and has the ability to play whole sessions with genuine cricketing shots and still dominate the bowlers. He started off his career by being a "front foot slogger" but is more than that now, no doubt.

However the problem with the temperament still remains, and is doubly frustrating, since now he does not need to resort to these mindless slogs at all. He can defend against the very good balls, and often hit the merely good ones to the boundary with clean cuts, drives and pulls. Then why attempt baseball style hoicks?

There are plenty of role models for him to follow, so maybe he can progress further as a batsman. Flintoff is of course the obvious one, but there is also Sehwag, and then the peerless Gilcrhist. Even if Afridi becomes half as consistent as Gilchrist, Pakistan will have a real match-winner in their hands. No doubt though, his talent is something special and unique. Given his potential, I think this guy could have done so much more with his life. If someone like Flintoff can be such a potent Test batsman, just imagine what Afridi could have been, if he could only have sorted out whatever is between his two ears. Maybe he is making a start to do that now, but I wouldn't be too hopeful, he can bat sensibly for 40 mins and then throw it all away in 10 seconds!

Maybe, looking at it optimistically, that can be the next stage in his development. He has, to an extent, developed the technique and the defence which he lacked. Now maybe, he needs time in the middle in Tests to develop the temperament and the taste for big scores. He still sometimes seems hungry for getting the maximum score in any one over. Once he lets go of that, and learns that its not a game of one over but of 450, he will be a different thing. He will then hopefully become hungry for scores and develop an appetite for staying at the crease... to get big scores, he will hopefully cut out the wasteful slogs, and be more judicious in his shot selection... here's hoping, anyway!

The fact is, he is so good in his timing, strength, vision and seeing the ball that he does not need to resort to slogging. Even when defending against Kumble and Harbhajan, he was able to play quite late and comfortably. But well looks like, for the time being at least, we are stuck with both the Afridis - the mature, sensible, destroyer of opposition morale and their teams... and the idiotic slogger.

[Ernest]

Hi ff,

Nice to speak again,
I think I don't agree with you over Afridi, if Pakistan want to win, he has give them a start, not am inpossible total tomorrow.
IMHO players like Afridi, are not cut out to play for a draw, we will have to see if Pakistan will try and win tomorrow, or shut up shop.

[Maranello]

In terms of the overall match situation, Afridi's fireworks have ensured that a draw is a very unlikely result tomorrow. If Pakistan bat through the 90 overs, they will hopefully get the 327 runs required. India just need nine wickets, but if we can save Mohali, we can save here too. In various interviews, the Pakistani team players tonight all indicated that they will try and go for a win.

Yes, it's not Mohali, but still, the pitch has not really broken up as much as expected/feared. It is very slow, and has uneven bounce in some areas where it has broken up, with the ball sometimes keeping low. However, apart from that, as long as you keep your head and play sensibly, batsmen can still stay around. Run scoring though is not as easy here as it was at Mohali (the first Test) where on the fifth day, the pitch had good bounce and carry, decent pace and some predictability.

Harbhajan and Kumble will look to exploit the rough on Day 5; the ball from Kaneria that got Karthik really did come in a very long way. Also, don't expect Ganguly to go for a new ball; once this ball gets 60 or 70 overs old, it will become much harder to play it off the spinners and even the two pacers. Run-scoring will not be easy, but by no means impossible either. Ganguly has the runs to be very attacking whilst emplying a twin spin attack, and those are not the conditions most batsmen find easy to cope with.

On the bright side though, the only period in this match when the bowlers were well and truly on top was on Day 3, after Pakistan lost Inzamam, and Harbhajan and Kumble bowled brilliantly. Apart from that, it has been a very even tussle, and a great Test.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by ff

Yep but again he is out. He may have scored his runs at a good pace, but he is back in the Pavilon now and will be for the whole of the fourth innings. Yes he may have got a 50, but he should still be out there. Sounds more like a highly irresponsible innings to me.

Geez I thought people only jumped up to conclusions when the saw some of the action, seems like I was wrong, people can jump up to conclusions even when ever they wont ..Gosh, this is such a strange world...Anyway ff, afridi's innings may sound like an irresponsible innings, or rather seem like one on paper, but it wasn't one in real. It was just the type of innings we needed him to play, and yes, ideally we would have wanted him to be there at the end, but nothing that is ideal exists, Afridi did his job, or perhaps did half of it. He is not an opener anyway. And should be playing test cricket as a bowling all rounder.

What I utterly dislike about the criticism Afridi gets for his batting is when people forget that Afridi NEVER (never ever) has been a genunine batter, let alone an opener, he was picked as a leg spinner, to replace the injuired Mushtaq Ahmed in a one-day series in Kenya. Wasim Akram was the skipper at that time, he saw him bat (slog) in the nets, and liked what he saw. He decided that in the next match Pakistan would experiment with him as a picnh hitting opener. The experiment worked and in just his second match (first international innings) he recorded the fastest ever one-day hundred. Although Afridi's batting has developed a long way since then, and now he can be justifiably considered a genuine batter but the fact that he started out only an experimental batsmen is always going to show when he bats.

That's why you cannot expect him to perform or play like a regular batsmen. Afridi will do things differently. And people should just be willing to accept that and move on. How many times have people tried out to tell him to bat patiently and how many times has he listened, seems like a waste of energy for either sides to me. No, I'm not saying his endless baseball hoicks are justified, but once in a while (ok, may be more that just once in a while, I admit), he is going to get out like that, and its understandable too. This is because Afridi's biggest strengths are also his biggest weaknesses. He's like a double edged sword. And that's why I've always maintained the opening position is not where he should bat. The style of his batting is best suited to a position far lower in the order, at least in test cricket.

As far for the match it self, I've had the most bizarre of times sicne Stumps today, I have talked to about 15 people in person, including friends, cousins and some friends of friends, and the lack of optimism about a positive result for us tomorrow has not only shocked me but it's also irritated me. A bright start, a blistering 50 from Afridi, I was hoping was this going to be enough to get the public to back the team, but no...all you get to hear is criticism of Afridi, for God sakes that is the past, can we concentrate on tomorrow now! I hope people I've talked too are form the minority, because I certainly think we have a chance.

This is not iternal optimism after all, far from it. 329 runs in a day with 9 wickets in hands, be it on a day 5 wicket but this is still is not impossible, espeically considering we have a relatively deep and inform line up to boast of, one more good partnership like the Afridi-Taufeeq one and I'd go one as far as to say we'd be favorites. 80 times 5 is 400 so if we make sure we don't lose wickets in a bunch and always put up together some decent partnerships and score at a decent enough rate at the same time, something like 3.5 an over at least (4 would be ideal), I would reckon we would have as much a chance of winning this game as India

Lastly, a final note on the over all test match, it certainly has had so far all the making of an epic test match: both teams have done great to come back just when their doubters had written them off plus their have been some great individual performances to accompany it. I hope we get a final twist in the tale tomorrow, in Pakistan's favor that is! Its worth remembering by the way, that we have never lost to India at this venue, neither have we lost to them in Banglore, the venue for the next test match. Oh how I love these two stats

[workkey]

bucknor has compensated by not giving dravid out lbw to khalil

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

What I utterly dislike about the criticism Afridi gets for his batting is when people forget that Afridi NEVER (never ever) has been an genunine batter, let alone an opener,

But what you seem to forget ZR is that Afridi is better than most genuine bats we have tried in our revolving door selection policy over the past few years. He may struggle against quality seam and swing bowling, but then most Pakistanis do, to varying extent. Its not as if we have a Gavaskar or a Dravid waiting in the wings! As we don't, I think Afridi deserves a decent run in the Test side, where all the pressure is taken off him. In the past, whenever he has played Tests, it has been on the basis that its his "last chance" and if he does not deliver he will be out. The guy deserves better than that, let's give him an extended run, tell him his place his secure, let him find his feet at the Test level without a sword hanging over him, and he may well develop a better temperament, a hunger for runs, a desire to really dominate. If Sehwag or Flintoff or even Trescothick can be considered genuine Test batsmen, no reason why Afridi cannot be given at least a good chance. Who knows, he may surprise you and develop a better temperament, his batting technique certainly has come a long way since his 1997!

It seems this is one of the rare occasions where I am being the sentimental optimist, and you maybe the cynical realist.


PS: for the record, Afridi's technique, as seen today and at Sydney too, has become pretty good. He used to be primarily a tail-end slogger, but now plays genuine cricket shots, cuts and drives as well as any of our younger guys, and call pull too. He also defended well, especially agains the spinners; the old Afridi would never have played a maiden to a spinner, but today he was happy to do that, and with good solid defensive technique. To be fair, his footwork is now better than sometimes Sehwag's or Trescothick's is, and they seem to be doing very well in Tests! His main problem is shot selection, and that comes with time in the middle and confidence.

[workkey]

afridi is a match winner.if we can remember it was him who scored 141 in the last bangalore win so there is always a chance with him..if he gets going he will win the match for you in whatever circumstances.
coming to the match if we can score about 100 runs with lossing 2 wickets in the first session the win is there but if india can pick up inzamam and yousaf before lunch that means also younis and toufeeq then it will be a draw or even a win for india so it all depends on the first session...
afridi played a real gem and infact has given us a chance to win from here ..no doubt i was also dissapointed when he got out but he was just awsome....just look how he responded to pathan when he was hit on his back...a big six on the next ball..that tell us that he has the heart of a lion and a true fighter.

[Zainub]

Me and cynical realist? May be I can be realist, but cynical...Never...not unless .. "the bob Willis Negativity Syndrome" becomes an endimic and also becomes untreatable - I hope I wouldn't be alive to see that day....

I'm actually in complete agreement with you, I'm not against seeeing Afridi get a decent run in the test side, in fact I'd very much like to see him become a permenant member of the test side, but I'd rather see him bat at 6 or 7 then 1 or 2. You talk about Gilchrist and Freddie, and both bat bat in the middle to lower order in test cricket, that hasn't stopped them from being the naturally attacking and aggressive players they have been (Trescothick is a different case altogether, he is a genuine test opener, with an ungenuine technique, although even that is very affective) ... I'm dreaming of the days when Gilchrist style Afridi could come in at 7 and make 200 run partnerships with one of the top men and win us games (remeber the Katich-Gilchrist partnership last week in the 1st Aus-NZ)...that's the role I'd want him to have... geez, the world always seems so much more nicer in dreams

And yes, you are right, Afridi has got all the shots in the book you can think of, probably too many shots for some people's liking if you as them! His problem is shot selection, with a combination of lack of patience. He doesn't wait for the right ball to hit those shots. And sometimes he can be a bit of a compulsive puller/hooker ..hell bent on playing every time the ball is pitched short - sometimes it can be a good idea to sway or duck - he's a tempremental sort of guy, last night Miandad was on telly doing an analysis show one GEO TV, he said Afridi was a tempremental guy, when he hits one shot, for four or six, it makes him think he can hit everything for six...hmm..from all the bio I've learned that might be due to an over stimulated nervous system - Afridi probably drinks too much coffee/tea/and or energy drinks (these kinds of things over excite your nerves), he should follow Razzaq, and switch to a diet of spinach

[Zainub]

.just look how he responded to pathan when he was hit on his back...a big six on the next ball..that tell us that he has the heart of a lion and a true fighter.

True fighter? True pathan would seem more appropriate to me. I leanred in history that the Afrid tribe (which originiated from the moutainss that runs between the Khyer Pass) were considered one of the bravest people of their times ...back then the British tried to lay down a rail in their area ...but they didn't let them invaid their privacy...and anyone that came even close to their territory was dismissed, in true Afridi style ...

You're right about the shoulder blow though, I wasn't surprised he didn't react, he's not some one who is likely to show the opposition he's in pain, he even sent back Taufeeq Umar who was trying to come over to ask if he was ok, they say about Lahoris here, that they're , well just plain simple Lahoris, and no one can be like them, well that can be said of Afridi as well, he's plain simple Afridi, and no one can be like him Mr. Self Destruction at times he can be, equally entertaining and irritating I don't think I'd exchange him for anyone, he's brings a little something to the team spirit as well. Is never afraid of telling people what he thinks. Even had a chat with Dravid yesterday after Tendulkar was dismissed.

[Rachael]

Surely the point about the current side is that they can afford to accomodate a ODI style opener: England already have Tresco, Flintoff and Vaughan (who seems hell bent on trying to play as if he were cut fro the same mould as the former two). The last thing England could afford would be Afridi in place of Strauss.

In Pakistan's situation I think that changes: it would be nice to have Butt anchoring the inning as an opener.. but there's actually a case for a Chris Gayle / Tresco style sacrificial test opener who's never really expected to last more than one session but who can {a} take the attack to the new ball bowlers and put them under pressure.. and {b} protect the stronger, middle order batsmen from the new ball.

It's not an approach I like... but I'm realistic enough to appreciate it's merits.

Looking at the scorecard at the close of the INdian innings.. I think Pakistan would have taken the end of play scorecard: I'd still back INdia to win this game but a bit of grit from some of these middle order guys (perhaps building on confidence from the first Test) might well lead to a wholly unexpected 2nd tie in succession - I wonder what price you could have got on that before the series started!