SA v WI 4th test

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

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Lara wasn't too selfish when you were with him on his parade now was he??

Dude what are you on about ? Laras 400* was a geat knock, and a great display of stamina but had he given in at say 350* he might have got a result. thats a selfish example. But then again would they have got a result ? tresco and vaughan socred 80odd and tresco had scored about 20 altogether in the previous macthes. Antiguas pitch is great for batting displays nothing else.

i dont remember anyone joining him on his parade ! :0

[oracle]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

In the last 10 years only Lara, Gayle and Adams have passed 200 at Antigua.

I can tell you one thing Kallis would of gone way past his 147 , I would bet over 200 if he not was faced with a early decleration from Smith .

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

Is it the press then, that are out to get him? No other player with his fantastic talent seems to be the but of so many rumours and press snippets about stuff from within the team.

Not out to get him, no.

Maybe because no other talent in the world is a member of such an underperforming side.

I know and have heard of many things said and done by members of the 70s/80s side.

But they were winning.

And winning excuses a lot of behaviour.

Don't get me wrong, Lara is no saint or choir boy but he pales in comparison to Viv.

However Viv's teams more or less won and, for a period, were the best ever.

If Viv had been playing for a losing side during the early 80s, for example, that same arrogance and swagger at the crease we loved would be derided as unprofessional etc....

You've got Ridley today, someone like Colin croft is always going on at him, even Holding's had a go. Then there's the alledged ousting of Courtney and Hooper as captains, the supposed brattish behaviour on tour in england and a rift with richie richardson. He just seems to be the victim of a lot of nasty reports and I wonder why?

Personally, I don't really give Colin Croft the time of day. And so what if Holding has had a go?? He is not squeaky clean either.

The ousting of Courtney Walsh and Hooper are allegations that no one has bothered to elaborate on. I see Walsh holds no illwill and all they say is Lara undermined them. Maybe the fact that Walsh and Hooper were losing captains might actually be the reason they were fired.

After all, Holding himself said he would NEVER commentate on another WI game if Hooper was made captain!!!

ps - I'd give my left nut to see a game in the Windies, any game - what an atmosphere! My point about Antigua is that it just seems like a foregone conclusion as a game before a ball has been bowled.

And my point is, just TWO years ago, WI actually got a result against Australia on that pitch.

So not EVERY Antigua Test match just the last two. So obviously a recent groundsman's problem not the Test ground as a whole.

P.S. DOn't part with your left nutr so easy

[Zainub]

On the subject of Brian Lara, John Stern, writes in his weekly column Stern Words that the WI eventually might well only move forward when Lara is gone. Read the full thing here

Originally Posted by John Stern, editor, The Wisden Cricketer

It is possible that the West Indian players, at least the younger ones, are intimidated by his presence. It is rare for a genius like Lara to be self-aware enough to realise how lesser players might feel in his company. Stories abound of England debutants in the 1980s and '90s simply being too scared - or being made to feel that way - to be themselves around their more senior team-mates. So if that can happen in an England dressing-room that wasn't overflowing with legends, imagine what it must be like to share a locker-room with Lara, or even to bat with him. Might you not speak until spoken to? Might you be a tad self-conscious about the first cover-drive you unleashed?

It is easy to lambast the West Indies players for lack of discipline, as the critics do. But discipline stems from desire, and desire stems from confidence. A player who is not confident and feels constantly under pressure will give off an air of ill-discipline or carelessness. It is heresy to wish the departure of Brian Lara. He is the batsman I would spend my last dollar to watch. Not Tendulkar or Ponting or anyone else. But West Indies may only move on when Lara is gone. He has lost 53 of his 115 Tests, and is only one defeat short of joining Alec Stewart as Test cricket's greatest loser. That is not a record that Lara either wants or deserves.

[Teatime FatCat]

Well Ninj (if I may call you that), lets look at something a lot more positive then - what's the West Indian take on Dwayne Bravo? I think he's a great find and a potential matchwinner with both bat and ball. How's he perceived over there?

[Ninjaman]

Hi Zainub, I also have read Stern's article and find it to be full of just random thoughts but no real point.

It makes no sense.

My whole point the issue is not that Lara is without fault or not worthy or any criticism. I have said things to the man's FACE about things I feel he should do better at.

It is the insinuation that somehow as soon as he leaves, we are going to get six Headleys, four Marshalls and a Dujon, just like that.

That somehow whilst at the crease, the likes of Hinds, Gayle and co. are so inconsistent because Lara is up in the stands and on the teamsheet.

That many of our bowlers who don't exactly set our domestic competition alight and wouldn't know a 10 wicket match haul if it came up to them and introduced itself, will become Roberts/Garner/ Holding and Croft overnight as soon as Lara goes.

Frankly, I am of the opinion that if ANY player cannot play with Lara or similar high profile player , they are mentally deficient.

If they cannot handle a great player in their presence, then they obviously have no ability to become great themselves.

There are no super youths coming through and the same ill managed almost non-existent structure will still be there whether he is their or not.

Apparently, my spies tell me that before the last Test, the new fitness co-ordinator put the team through a rigorous physical ordeal to improve their fitness to be able to play 5 intense days of cricket.

Only 2 players were not keeling over in sheer pain because of those exercises.

1) Dwayne Bravo
2) Brian Lara

If I am not mistaken, the youngest and the oldest.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

Well Ninj (if I may call you that), lets look at something a lot more positive then - what's the West Indian take on Dwayne Bravo? I think he's a great find and a potential matchwinner with both bat and ball. How's he perceived over there?

Highly thought of. He's young and so the hope is he will learn more and more and become better and better.

Flaws throughout both his 2 disciplines, but recently his batting had fallen down in comparison to his bowling.

But his first class and test averages are over 30.

Good fielder too.

We can but watch and hope.

[Paoli]

Stern's article; didn't make alot of sense, nothing like a Sambit Bal or even a Martin Williamson.

Is Lara past his use-by date..In about 5 years, come back to me and I may merely think of it.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Dude what are you on about ? Laras 400* was a geat knock, and a great display of stamina but had he given in at say 350* he might have got a result. thats a selfish example. But then again would they have got a result ? tresco and vaughan socred 80odd and tresco had scored about 20 altogether in the previous macthes. Antiguas pitch is great for batting displays nothing else.

i dont remember anyone joining him on his parade ! :0

Why do I even bother with people who don't know what they are on about??

This has got zilch to do with when he should have declared.

Lara was paraded days after the game.

Other players like Rampaul, Bravo and Ridley Jacobs had spots on that parade. Beside the man.

Now, Jacobs says he is selfish but yet he (Lara) fully acknowledges that Jacobs helped in his efforts to get their by staying and getting a cnetury for himself too. Ridley was quite happy to get one in front of his home crowd.

A truly selfish man would not do that and allow people like Rampaul who didn't even play a spot of the limelight would they?

The very same spotlight Jacobs complains of, he has actually allowed some of it to shine on him.

Once again, the fact the far more stinging comments about how he was treated by the team management are not repeated tells a tale.

WI got a result at Antigua, a year before Lara broke the world record. A result in 5 days at Antigua!! My my. Yet it is only good for batting displays.

As I said it would be better if you said, the last TWO years have been good for batting displays.