Pre-series build up thread – Pakistan v England (Part 1)

[Zainub]

The Pakistan Cricket Board has sent a proposed itinerary for England's tour of the country later this year to its English counterpart the ECB. The provisional schedule (which I belive has been confirmed by the ECB) lasts from 25 October to 22 December with three Tests in Karachi, Faisalabad and Lahore. It also includes one-dayers at Lahore, Karachi and Rawalpindi but no matches will be played at Peshawar or Quetta. As I understand in total they are probably going to be 3 tests and 5 ODIs. But more interestingly the ECB have arranged 3 warm up games- two 3 day games before the test series and then 1 one day match before the one day series. [Good, now if England lose, you guys can't complain about not not having enough warm up games ]

Anyway, a lot of cricket between then and now, especially for England. But it's never too early to start a "really early pre series build up thread". Then when the tour ends, we can all laugh about how wrong / right our predictions were.

As I see through my imaginary fortune ball I can see King of Spain being England's leading wicket taker, and England having to struggle against Kaneria. I can also see us beating you at Karachi really badly and my self sitting in the stand somewhere being really happy about that. Aah, that would be lovely.

So, what can you see through your imaginary fortune ball - please do imagine you have one.

[Maranello]

wow ZR this is early!

You are right, Kaneria will be a handful, though we would also need a fully fit and in-form pace bowling attack, Kaneria would not be enough on his own. England's batting on paper is much stronger than ours hence we will have to play out of skins.

For England, Flintoff and Harmison should both be a handful if they bowl well, and someone likes S. Jones would enjoy himself - hence not sure if Giles will be the leading wicket taker. Guys like Inzamam and Youhana can have him for breakfast, lunch and tea, and still have room for supper afterwards.

[Zainub]

Giles always manages to do well in the subcontinent, wickets wise at least, last time too, he did very well. I think Youhanna will score lots of runs, I tend to believe he's got a particular liking for England (I'm still dewelling too much on last time I guess).

Simon Jones, yes, he might find reverse, but he'll probably struggle with heat and everything (it will still be hot by England's stand in November) I actually think Freddie might do well - he has to get over his subcontinent jinx some time after all.

To be really honest I don't really know what to expect from England at this stage, so much will depend on how they play in the Ashes. In any case I do expect us to do well, other wise it will be quite some task hanging around here It's going to be a great series nevertheless.

[Paoli]

I think England will again win in Pakistan, as they did five years ago. I just did a bit of the maths, figured that no Wasim, no Waqar, Saqlain and Mushtaq are both finished, no Saeed Anwar and who knows if Shoaib will be there? Pakistan are still very much in a rebuilding phase. In saying that, I'm looking forward to Danish Kaneria finally bowling on Pakistani soil. He will have alot to say in the final outcome of the series, I'm predicting about 22 wickets from Danish. Also, another key will be Yousuf Youhana; I predict that he will score quite a few runs again, 2 100's, is about right. And Inzamam, who I believe will have a couple of good tests but overall he will be found out when trying to salvage Pakistan from the wreck.

England, on the other hand, have only strengthened since the last series. Ashley Giles test birth was very much in Pakistan five years ago where he worked in tandem with Ian Salisbury who bowled like an absolute hack the whole time, I think he took 1 for about 250 runs. England have found themselves a new fast bowling superstar (at least that's what they tell you) in Stephen Harmison, a new World-Class allrounder in Flintoff and a new batting superstar in Kevin Pietersen. Expect the England XI to look a bit like this; Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Pietersen, Bell, Flintoff, Prior, Giles, Hoggard, S. Jones, Harmison. Prior will have replaced a dead and absolutely buried Geraint Jones who'll have an Ashes stinker in a lot of peoples eyes. Thorpe will have retired after the Ashes I believe, if not, then he will own one of those eleven places, provided he has a fairly good Ashes. I see the key player being Michael Vaughan- for his bowling. I reckon his off-spinners could get about 10-12 victims in this series as well as making a fair bit with the bat. How will Pietersen go overseas, especially in the sub-continent, remains to be seen. I for one hope he goes well. Will Flintoff have a lot to say this series? Probably a century with the bat and a five-wicket haul with the ball, but I'd be expecting around 250 runs and 11 wickets from Freddie at modest averages after a big Ashes that is expected of him. The side last time around looked like this; Atherton, Trescothick, Hussain, Thorpe, Hick, Stewart, White, Giles, Salisbury, Gough, Caddick. A massive change, as only two of those blokes will be there come Pakistan 2005. That may work into Pakistan's favour.

But still, as well as barracking for England in this series, I think they'll come away with a 2-1 Test Series win. It'll be an interesting series.

[Zainub]

Expect the England XI to look a bit like this; Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Petersen, Bell, Flintoff, Prior, Giles, Hoggard, S. Jones, Harmison.

Ok, let's pitch this against the my expected Pakistan XI

Trescothick ..... Shahid Afridi
Strauss ..... Salman Butt / Yasir Hameed / Taufeeq Umar
Vaughan ..... Younis Khan
Pietersen ..... Inzamam
Bell ..... Youhanna
Flintoff ..... Abdul Razzaq
Prior ...... Kamran Akmal
Giles ...... Danish Kaneria
Hoggard ..... Umar Gul
S. Jones ..... Muhammad Sami
Harmison ..... Shoaib Akhtar

That's quite an interesting match up if you ask me, what Pakistan lack in stability over England at the top of the order they would probably make up with fire power, i.e. IF Afridi call pull it off, which I always believe he can on the subcontinent - he'd actually quite fancy an attack the likes of Jones, Harmison, Hoggard and Freddie - ball coming on to that bat at decent pace, flat pitches no movement, bingo....almost tailor made conditions for him. He might be troubled by Giles a little bit - especially if he starts bowling out side leg, Afridi doesn't like that, he gets him self out when spinners bowl to him like that. Strauss has never played in the subcontinent before, so we can't say how successful he'll be, he's plays the pull shot quite a lot, the wickets being slow here, and not as much bounce as else where, if Pakistan bowl to him with a proper plan that shot might well be his undoing.

Number 3 slot is also interesting. I'd say Vaughan is definitely more class, but Younis Khan is really bully too, if he gets in, he really gets in, I'd say about even stevens on this one. I don't think Vaughan's bowling will cause us any harm. We play off spinners pretty well; it's leggies that cause us trouble.

The next two slots, number 4 and 5 is I believe where England will find them selves struggling. I can see KP having an absolute night mare tour - he'll probably end up being nicknamed Olympics or something after making 6 ducks - 3 times bowled to quick bowlers, 3 times LBW to quick bowlers - that flawed technique will cost him. (Or at least I live in hope). Ian Bell recently didn't have that good a time playing in Sri Lanka for England A, and on that basis I have sort of concluded he will also struggle for real big scores in Pakistan as well. While England's middle order will struggle with Bell and Bambam, Pakistan two best batsmen Inzi and Youhanna will probably make all the difference here.

The all rounder honors will probably be taken by Freddie, given I expect him to trouble our batsmen a bit more then I expect Razzaq to trouble the England lads. Freddie's also a better fielder, so this slot, probably will go to England. However I still don't see Freddie getting a hundred, he'd probably get a couple of 70s and the rest will be all single figure scores, with the ball he might get 15 wickets in the series at about 25 (but that is if Trescothick takes his catches). Abdul Razzaq will probably score more runs, about 300 runs in all, including some very crucial runs I believe.

Keeping slot, I'll give to Kamran Akmal, I don't know much about Prior, but given I believe this will be his first outing in test cricket in the sub continent, I'd expect him to have a mixed series, no big runs, just decent 20s, but competent with the gloves. On the contrary I do expect Kamran Akmal to make a real impression or two with the bat. Century for him at Lahore.

Spin options are also very interesting, while Kaneria will trouble England more then Giles will trouble Pakistan, we might actually find Giles's batting a bit of hard nut to crack. Both these will have good series. I'll leave it at that.

Fast bowling is where I'm expecting Pakistan to have the real edge. Steve Harmison will probably be home sick, if not, he'd probably get him self injuired while travelling, or something ridiculous like that - in any case I presume England's bowlers will by and large generally struggle here, Mathew Hoggard will bowl steadily, lots of over, with good economy rates, but very few wickets. Simon Jones is one that I think might be the most affective of this lot, he might get reverse, but he too might well be liable for going for too many runs.

Pakistan on the other hand will finally (hopefully) have a 5 fit and inform fast bowlers to choose from. Shoaib Akhtar will probably use this series to announce his coming off age - will probably take a 10 for in one of the tests, and will make KP his bunny. Sami might still rue catches being dropped of his bowling but he too will have a satisfactory series. Umar Gul will struggle a little bit against Freddie, but generally he too will bowl well.

There you go; I have just proved that there is no limit to how insane/unreasonable/illogical/biased one's dreams can be. 99% of the above is based on phrases likes "probably”, "if"...and many vast generalizations ...so if you aren't persuaded, that is no surprise, I expect that.

[Trescothick]

This test could depend a lot on the moral of the England team after the Ashes... I am thinking if we get demoralised this summer, this test won't go our way and we shall slip a bit.. If we defeat the odds and are victirious this summer then we will be feeling invincble and be able to overcame Pakistan well... As it is, i still feel we can pull of a close victory.

I can't see our line-up changing drastically from now, i feel Geriant Jones will have made a good impression hopeflly in the Ashes and retained his place.. Pietersen will show hes worthy of a test place and Bell will certainly be in the running by then hopefully.

Interesting thread but theres a way to go

[King Aragorn]

I'd go for a drawn series.

Pakistan has improved a lot of late and I am sure that they will continue to do so. England will be the stronger side but Pakistan will have the home advantage and we can very much capable of drawing the series. We might not be able to match the English side player by player but that doesn't really matter. We just saw the underdogs triumph in India recently.

The positive thing is that the Pakistani players are all eager to learn. Their work ethic is commendable. They have shown a great fighting spirit in their recent matches against SL and IND and I wouldn't be surprised if we lose the first test and come back strongly. It's a team hungry for success.

I'd tip Inzi and Umar Gul to shine for Pakistan.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

We've got a decent chance out there. Alot goes on the harmisson factor, but personally, I'd rather see him at home and someone like tremlett or jon lewis in his place - he ist going to perform over there certainly if the pitches are a bit a dry and a bit lifeless. ALso depends on whether we can find a reasonable second spinner ie not Batty. Vaughan should be able to do it, maybe peitersen can share the load too.

[Zainub]

What does Pitersen bowl, surely it can't be anything of much use...

[Shaka]

This isn't as cut and dried as it might have seemed 6 months ago. England on paper are the stronger side, but a lot of the not so well known players in the Pakistan team have a lot of ability and are pretty much capable of matching up with anyone on their day, especially in the bowling department. Harmison is a fine bowler but he strikes me as a bit of a sap with his homesickness issues. Pakistan is an unforgiving place for people who aren't up for it. England's only series victory there was down to Nasser Hussain's determination not to get sidetracked, and with Fletcher at the helm, I expect the attitude will remain healthy.

England's batting will be the key difference for me. Pakistan have plenty of talented players but they don't have the maturity of players like Thorpe or Strauss. Yassir Hameed for example, is likely to toss his wicket even when well set and that could be costly. Even so I think it will be a close series which might end in a draw. What Pakistan lacks at the top of the order it makes up for with a very strong middle and lower order, making it very difficult to roll them over twice in the space of 5 days. So to sum it up, I would give England the edge in the test matches but I think Pakistan will come out on top in the ODI's where we have a very strong line up.

Incidentally, it's a shame there will be no matches in Pehawar. NWFP is an integral part of Pakistan and a place where past tourists have usually appreciated seeing. Not to mention that the best crowds for test matches have been in Peshawar recently, and the track is one of the most fast bowler friendly in the country. Harmison would have had a field day because it's one of the few wickets in Pakistan with some lift. There again, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed have a liking for it too, especially as the former is a local lad.