The Ashes Build Up Thread

[Trescothick]

Sometimes I do worry about how we will fare against the Aussies and think it is possible we will collapse however saying we will lose 5-0 or 4-1 at best as even more absurd than me saying we will win!!

We have the best 'team' for a long time, its a brilliant unit with no stand-out player we rely on... People say the quality of teams we have played aren't brilliant but you can only beat the times put infront of you and we have convincingly and so much so called question on how good they are nowadays...

We have a player in Strauss who can match up to any Aussie batsmen and he hasn't known failure at test level.. Yes, hes had a poor run but so has every batsmen.. He will come trumps and get a nice average.. prob not spectacular but a fair one. Tresco has improved a lot and we can expect some brilliant innings from him. The whole team has been performing well and it will do against the Aussies.

It is easy to look at some of Englands collapses and judge but have a look how we have recovered and gone on to win. Also if we can judge our collapses, look at the Aussies...

Please! If we had lost to Bangladesh, the whole England team would be mocked on this forum until the Ashes syaing how can we stand a chance. If we lost to Somerset and drew with leicstershire.. We would have been called to change our whole team about!!
We have beaten what has been put out infront of us in cricket, the Aussies havent recently so they are far from invincible and we should certainly not get beaten each test if teh Aussie batting and bowling can collapse as badly as we've seen...

2-1 England, I will stick with

[Seamer]

The way i see it is this.
In-form Aussie bats. Langer, Ponting, Martyn, Gilchrist.
So-so form : Hayden, Kattitch
Out of form : Clarke
In form Eng bats: Petersen, Flintoff
so-so form : Trescothic, Strauss, Collingwood, Jones
out of form: Vaughan
Unknown : Bell
In form Aus bowlers: McGrath, Warne, Lee
Out of form : Gillespie, Kaspa
In form Eng bowlers : Harmison?
so-so form : Giles?,
Unknown: Hoggard, the other guy who ever he may be
Aussies look the better prospect if you were a bookie. We may well see more drawn games than usual this series i feel. Both teams have strong batting line ups compared to bowling strength. Hard to call the result now but the Aussies look the better bet at this stage i would say.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Seamer

The way i see it is this.
In form Eng bats: Petersen
so-so form : Trescothic, Strauss, Collingwood, Jones
out of form: Vaughan
Unknown : Bell
In form Eng bowlers : Harmison?
so-so form : Giles?,
Unknown: Hoggard, the other guy who ever he may be
Aussies look the better prospect if you were a bookie. We may well see more drawn games than usual this series i feel. Both teams have strong batting line ups compared to bowling strength. Hard to call the result now but the Aussies look the better bet at this stage i would say.

So Flintoff is not involved in this series then?

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by greg

So Flintoff is not involved in this series then?

Fancy forgetting him. Add him to the "in form bats i suppose. I will edit the mistake.

[Milo]

I take very little notice of form when describing batsmen - as it only takes one ball to take their wicket. A player is as likely (unless he is not up to Test standard) to hit a streak of sublime form as go through a large trough.

Take England's worst batsman on the tour of Zimbabwe and the early matches in South Africa. It was Andrew Strauss. Everyone said he was out of form going into the test series. 500 runs in 4 tests, and we were left wondering what that was all about.

Current form is almost by definition 'history', Your next innings can always be the turn of the corner. Australia have too many 'quality' batsmen for me to believe that four of them (whoever they might turn out to be) will score 400 runs in the series.

Bowling is different. If you bowl 20 overs and do not look like taking a wicket, it is a major worry. It's not like getting one good ball, playing one bad shot and ending back in the pavilion. Likewise, it is a lot harder to turn the corner when you are putting in bad performances with the ball. At this moment, Warne and McGrath look like they are doing well enough for me to believe England will struggle.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Milo

At this moment, Warne and McGrath look like they are doing well enough for me to believe England will struggle.

I think these two will be the difference. Wish they were in there mid-20s.
Good post Milo, your points are pretty spot on. As far as batting goes, you are only as good (or bad) as your last innings.

[Leafy Seadragon]

Or I think even more accurately, although considerably harder to assess, you're only as good as your next innings. Having said that, a run of form with the bat is usually something that will carry a batsman for a while, given the mental aspects. Confidence is hard to come by, and a batsman with a bit of confidence is probably slightly more dangerous than one without. So for me, form with the bat does matter a little. Its just not the be all and end all

[greg]

Confidence with the ball is far more important than confidence with the bat.You can play and miss as often as you like as a batter but bowl short and you are knackered as a bowler.Take Gillespie and Lee.Who do you think will get more wickets at Lords if both play?Where as if you went with Hayden and Martyn you wouldn't want to guess.

[Leafy Seadragon]

I agree that confidence with the ball is more important than with the bat. However, I was just stating that I think confidence with the bat is a factor. Batsmen out of touch often scratch around at the start of an innings, unwilling or unable to take on the bad ball. A batsmen in form with confidence will often punish the early bad ball, even if its in his first over at the crease. The differences in approach often accentuate the confidence (or lack thereof). On this note, its not uncommon to see a batsman play themselves into form during an innings as the confidence grows. I agree that this is far less likely with a bowler, although it does happen

There's never any certainty about batsmen scoring runs, but I think it more likely for example that Ponting will score more than Clarke in the first test.

[Aussie-Yank]

Originally Posted by Milo

Bowling is different. If you bowl 20 overs and do not look like taking a wicket, it is a major worry. It's not like getting one good ball, playing one bad shot and ending back in the pavilion. Likewise, it is a lot harder to turn the corner when you are putting in bad performances with the ball. At this moment, Warne and McGrath look like they are doing well enough for me to believe England will struggle.

I would have to disagree on your theory with bowlers. I know from my own experience that I have been carted all over the park as a medium pace seam bowler. I was bowling to short and to full. Then I bowled a beauty of a yorker to bowl the batsmen who took the full toll of my bad bowling. My figures went from 10 overs 0 for 60, to 15 overs 5 for 64. One ball got my tail up and I started bowling a better line and length. Took wickets and shut down the runs. The confidence that one ball gave me was enough to lift my game.