The Ashes Build Up Thread

[Leafy Seadragon]

Everything changes (even history - or its interpretation); just not always in the direction that's anticipated...

[greg]

I think we can win it.The Aussies are an old team who have not been tested for a long time and it will be very interesting to see if they can perform when a team on the way up and at the top of their game gets at them.

[John]

I voted Australia surprise! surprise!

The main reason is I don't think Harmison can do it. I think Australias batting is too good. I think in yesterday game Mcgrath showed us what a class bowler is all about. I thought his ten overs were more impressive than Harmison. Mcgrath is the real deal Harmison is a pretender in comparison.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by John

I voted Australia surprise! surprise!

The main reason is I don't think Harmison can do it. I think Australias batting is too good. I think in yesterday game Mcgrath showed us what a class bowler is all about. I thought his ten overs were more impressive than Harmison. Mcgrath is the real deal Harmison is a pretender in comparison.

I agree totally John. I,m starting to think you are an Aussie in diguise. You have more faith in the Aussies than some of compatriates do.

[john the pom]

john

it is difficult with different time zones and everything (can't work out which day is your yesterday!) but can you just clarify one thing for me? do you think that mcgrath was the difference in the game the aussies lost to bangladesh or the game they lost to england?

cheers, jtp.

[John]

I thought Mcgrath looked quality in his spell against England. In fact as I said before there was a lot of good that came out of the game for Australia.
Well for an ageing side as we constantly reminded I thought they pushed England to the limit. Which rasies questions about how good England are? Maybe it would be fair to say its fortunate for England that they are ageing ( which they are).
I will be supporting neither side and look forward to a memorable summer.

Here my favourite cricket writer, on the coming Ashes. An American no less.
http://www.mikemarqusee.com/index.php?p=131#more-131

[Rachael]

That the Aussies actually had the measure of England in most of that last ODI is beyond dispute: they got off to a decent enough start... Ponting got an absolute beauty that should not attract criticism... Collingwood plucked a catch from nowhere... and from a position that looked hopeless the team posted a respectable total which, on that pitch, should really have been enough; throughout most of the England innings the Aussie bowlers were in control and had Ponting been successful in running out Pietersen (very nearly was) the win would surely have gone the other way.

All credit to England for pulling it off.... and the above doesn't mean the Aussies haven't got a few things to worry about (although returning players might sort some)... but you're right - England emerged with a couple of big question marks as well (though again, Giles returning should help there).

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Rachael

That the Aussies actually had the measure of England in most of that last ODI is beyond dispute: they got off to a decent enough start... Ponting got an absolute beauty that should not attract criticism... Collingwood plucked a catch from nowhere... and from a position that looked hopeless the team posted a respectable total which, on that pitch, should really have been enough; throughout most of the England innings the Aussie bowlers were in control and had Ponting been successful in running out Pietersen (very nearly was) the win would surely have gone the other way.

Fact is, England won! It doesn't matter who had the measure of who! England won!

I spent years as an England supporter thinking "If only this had happened, if only that had happened, then we would have won!" I stupidly thought we never had any luck!

Over the past 18 months i've been thinking "If only this had happened, if only that had happened, then we would have lost!". England are turning tight matches in their favour, whereas before tight matches turned against them.

I think this is not due to luck, it is because this England team has character and confidence in their abiltiy against all opposition. Harmison's first-ball dismissal of Ponting and Collingwood's amazing catch are tricks the Aussies have used for years to turn games in their favour, England are starting to do it now. It's not at all luck, it's confidence. In previous years an English bowler would not have had confidence to given Ponting a yorker first ball, believing it might come out worng and end up smacking the advertising boards! You make your own luck in cricket and hopefully England will carry on!

I'm not saying England will win the Ashes, Australia have the players to make major changes in their camp. But it is all in the head, the Aussies have not become poor cricketers over-night, they are starting to realise they are beatable and it is getting to them. England are realising they can beat anyone and it's showing, it's paying off!

England have gathered together a talented set of cricketer, all - importantly - with the correct character to play tough cricket. They all work together to feel confident in their abilities, work hard on their game, and thus they take the spectaular catches, get first ball wickets and give the best team in the world a taste of their own medicine.

[Leafy Seadragon]

Originally Posted by Lemming

the Aussies have not become poor cricketers over-night, they are starting to realise they are beatable and it is getting to them

I must admit to being bemused by this line of thought which has surfaced elsewhere. What have the Aussie team done to give people the impression that they thought themselves unbeatable? I think many do them a disservice in not recognising their professional approach. The fact that they realise that anyone can beat them, so they consistently put in 100%, is part of the reason teams rarely do. Virtually all of the talk about being 'unbeatable' has come from the media or various posters, not the current Aussie team.

I think what is getting to the Aussie team is that they are not meeting their own high standards. Whether this is rustiness or because they have taken teams for granted, late nights boozing or whatever, again the nature of the response reflects not meeting standards, rather than just losing. I'm not entirely comfortable with the noises coming from the Aussie camp, but would probably be more worried if the only matches we lost were the two against England and Ponting was talking about tightening up a few areas. The fact that we're losing to everyone to me is indicative of some internal issues in the team, rather than England or anyone else having the wood on us. Its happened before and will again, and I expect them to be resolved fairly quickly, such is the team professionalism. Of course, once its resolved and they are playing well, they still need to show that England doesn't have their number

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Leafy Seadragon

What have the Aussie team done to give people the impression that they thought themselves unbeatable?...The fact that they realise that anyone can beat them, so they consistently put in 100%, is part of the reason teams rarely do. Virtually all of the talk about being 'unbeatable' has come from the media or various posters, not the current Aussie team.

I think what is getting to the Aussie team is that they are not meeting their own high standards. Whether this is rustiness or because they have taken teams for granted, late nights boozing or whatever, again the nature of the response reflects not meeting standards, rather than just losing.

First you point out that the Aussies are professional (which of course they are), they are the most professional team in the world, then you say that some reasons they maybe losing are because "they have taken teams for granted or late nights boozing", obviously these reasons are not excuses for a professional team. So what do you think? Are they professional or not?

I believe they are professional. It was only Andrew Symonds who was late night boozing (and he got his punishment!), and I don't think they take any team for granted, their preparation for each and every match was probably top-notch.

But, the Aussies have a blatent air of arrogance about them. Only this morning I have heard Warne telling everybody to shut up and stop gloating! Obviously Australian lose games and they realise they are not unbeatable, they have never been unbeatable in the literal sense of the word! But they are obviously lacking something and my point was that it can't be technical but only mental and I believe they are starting to fear failure. But I also believe the Aussies are the best equipped team in the world to turn things around, and probably will.

Originally Posted by Leafy Seadragon

I'm not entirely comfortable with the noises coming from the Aussie camp, but would probably be more worried if the only matches we lost were the two against England

You lost to Bangladesh! The whipping boys of world cricket! What sort of twisted logic do you have? "So we lost twice to England! But's that's ok because we lost when we played the mighty Bangladesh!" I don't understand!

Trust me Leafy, losing to Bangladesh IS a huge problem for the Aussies, it is the most embarrassing match result I have ever seen. I'm not sure that the Aussies see it as you do considering teams like England would never expect to lose a match against Bangladesh considering how we whooped them earlier this year!