The Ashes Build Up Thread

[Maranello]

But Kirsty, this probably is the "best Aussie side"; certainly closer to the best than the team of 1997 were!

And this England team is certainly not the best England have had for 20 years. The standard of other teams is much poor, which flatters England into second place; however, there have been many other England teams over the past 20 years who have been much better than, or at least as good as, the current lot.

[Milo]

I'm sure England will be slightly more competetive. Losing by 5 wickets is an improvement on losing by an innings and 50. It's still a defeat though. 4-1 at best for me.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

And yes, England are a better side than 2001, for one thing they are a young team on the up, not an oldish team at their pinacle. I think England will do very nicely thankyou in Pakistain this winter.

I think that depends entirely on how well Pakistan play. If the team that played against India recently turns up, England will struggle. As we know, there is quite a wide range of performances Pakistan are capabale of producing, which provides England hope for some good results.

Not sure if England are better than 2001 anyway; without Thorpe and Hussain, they may struggle against Kaneria and the other spinners.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Maranello

But Kirsty, this probably is the "best Aussie side"; certainly closer to the best than the team of 1997 were! And this England team is certainly not the best they have had for 20 years!

I have to disagree - I have been watching English cricket since 1989, and this is, IMO the best side we have had in all that time. The team of 2001 was a good side, but getting towards the end of their career. This side has more depth and more potential match winners, also less weak-spots than other England sides I have watched over the years. I don't think the current Austrlian side is as good as some in recent history - for one thing, the bowling is looking a bit of a worry (Gillespie/Kasper) in places. Don't get me wrong, they arestill a very good team, but not the best Australian side ever

Regaurding the quality of other nations - it is true that certian countries are looking weaker at the moment, but all you can do is beat the oppostion in front of you, which England have done very well. I honestly think England are not getting enough due credit for their quality in some quaters.
We will see how good England are in the forthcoming weeks, I supposse!

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I have to disagree - I have been watching English cricket since 1989, and this is, IMO the best side we have had in all that time.

That is not 20 years, its 16; it may or may not be one of the better teams over the past 16 years; it certainly is not the best over 20 - Gatting's team in 1987 was much stronger. Some teams in the early 1990s would also give a current lot a run for their money, now that Thorpe is not there!

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I don't think the current Austrlian side is as good as some in recent history

Its as good as the side in 2001, and much better than the one in 1997. Remember, this side has just beaten India in India, quite comprehensively, something which none of its predecessors could.

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

they arestill a very good team, but not the best Australian side ever

That would be Bradman's team. But in the context of Australian teams over the 20 years, this one is as good as others.

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I honestly think England are not getting enough due credit for their quality in some quaters.

They are getting more than enough credit, in fact, for what Vaughan has achieved. Not sure what he or his team would have to complain about. His main achievement has been to beat an off-colour SA side; commendable, but not exactly the stuff of dreams or legends!

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Maranello

That is not 20 years, its 16; it may or may not be one of the better teams over the past 16 years; it certainly is not the best over 20 - Gatting's team in 1987 was much stronger...His main achievement has been to beat an off-colour SA side; commendable, but not exactly the stuff of dreams or legends!

Firstly, what I was meaning that this current England side is the best since England last won the Ashes.

Secondly, you sum up what I mean - when we beat WI in the WI, all the talk before was it being a close series, England stuffed them 3 - 0, and then it was all, well they aren't any good anyway. Then NZ were going to be a tough side to beat, with or without Butler, then by the end of the seiries where they were pasted (fair dues they had bad luck with injury) it was all, there no good anyway, washed up the lot of them! SA were going to really test England (which they did), but even a under-performing England side won the series, on paper it was 2-1, but bar bad light it was 3-1. After that series, suddenly SA are on the decline. It seems as soon as England beat a side, they are suddenly no good - I hope that curse dosen't carry forward to Pakistan this winter

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

SA were going to really test England (which they did), but even a under-performing England side won the series, on paper it was 2-1, but bar bad light it was 3-1. After that series, suddenly SA are on the decline. It seems as soon as England beat a side, they are suddenly no good - I hope that curse dosen't carry forward to Pakistan this winter

But SA have been in decline for a while, and actually last winter was a revival of sorts, the way they tried to battle it out against India and England, though lost both encounters. No sensible commentator would disagree with that.

Similarly, Pakistan at the moment are still on the way up, but have a long way to go. England, if they are as good as some people claim, would win there easily; anything less than a comprehensive England victory (2-0 etc) would be a moral victory for Pakistan, given the gulf between the teams.

[Kirsty Harris]

Well, no doubt we will soon find out how good England are!! I know that I have never beofre gone into an Ashes series feeling England have any sort of chance to emerge with anything other than defeat. I would have more confidence if Thorpe were playing, but I still feel England have the chance to win for the first time in 20 year!!

Maranello, nice to debate the issue with you, but I'm off to work now till tomorrow afternoon!

[greg]

The main reason South Africa lost the series was their own poor selections at the start of the series,if the side that finished the series had been playing in all the Tests then England may have lost.How can any side pick 3 different keepers in 3 games without losing any to injury is beyond me.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I would have more confidence if Thorpe were playing

I agree. That was a crucial omission. The second major error by the EWCB, after the disingenuous timing and scheduling.

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

I'm off to work now till tomorrow afternoon!

That is one long shift ...enjoy!