1st Test: England v Bangladesh: Lord's 26-30 May

[Paoli]

MP Vaughan: 102 not out
ME Trescothick: 163 not out

[flanflinger]

Now I am not a fan of Mark Richardson... But last year I admired his determination to earn a Test century at Lords, the culmination of his career.

What saddens me is that Vaughan and Trescothick are great players, but these two have not earned those centuries. It cheapens Test Cricket when things like this happen.

[Rachael]

Hmmmm.. it cheapens Test cricket when you get players of this callibre involved.. so surely it also cheapens County Cricket to throw in young England qualified players who aren't ready ahead of Kolpakers: sounds like double standards to me.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Rachael

County Cricket to throw in young England qualified players who aren't ready ahead of Kolpakers: sounds like double standards to me.

Nope because County Cricket is a national league, Tests are the heighest level of Cricket. County Cricket has two roles:

1. As a national league for entertainment of the viewing public
2. To develop England Cricketers

By including Kolpak's you can achieve point 1 - but if you wanted to watch Leicster - would you want to see a group of Journeymen or a good quality young player from Leicester. But I have no problems with geniuine Overseas players to attract people though the gates - sadly HB Akermann won't do that

But it singular fails to do point 2. County Cricket would not exist but for the Test match money - so it needs to do point two, otherwise it will die...

Look at this side - what does this match do to achieving the two goals I set out - http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/f...29MAY2005.html

Get some young guys from Derby and Leicster players - atleast their family would pitch up!! If you are a young guy in the Derby leagues with ambitions to play, how does this encourage you...

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I am sure you will appreciate someone who attends County Cricket games, (unlike some on here who never even watch Test matches on TV, yet seem to think they have an opion that should be respected),

Naming no names I see

Originally Posted by flanflinger

and as a Surrey fan, I have seen a lot of Rikki Clarke. Now I would not say that he is ready for Test Cricket, but I would say that he is looking far far better than I have seen of him before.

Certainly, you must have seen more of him that me. From what I have seen which mainly constitutes a couple of 1-dayers then he is about as good a bowler as Mark Butcher and as good a batsman as Jimmy Ormond. I repeat, this from what I have seen. In my opinion, he has more potential to be the next Ronnie Irani or Ian Blackwell rather than the next international all-rounder. The big advantage he has over Irani and Blackie is the fielding, which is very good - but shouldn't justify international selection

Originally Posted by flanflinger

IMO he is starting to fulfill some of the potential that the selectors saw a few years ago... when he was picked after one year in the county scene and at a relatively young-age.

Again, I have to say I haven't seen the development that you say has occurred, but as you have seen him substantially more than me, I'll defer to you on that - but I agree completely with the fact that you seem to be suggesting that he may have been picked too early.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

He is no Freddie Flintoff, but he has more long-term potential than Masceranhas or Wharf...purely based on being 4-5 years younger than them

Yes - he's no Flintoff - but who is? What I disagree with here is the potential versus Mascarenhas. What I see as the problem here is that people like Mascarenhas, Napier and Clarke have much more chance of being thoroughly decent one-day players for England than test cricketers. I can't see what these guys have to offer in test matches as they are no competition for Flintoff and no where near as good bowlers as Harmison, Hoggard, Jones etc. The only place there is in the England test team for them is as a replacement for Giles when there is no spin to be found in the pitch. However, as has been seen in this latest test that even when there is no need for a spinner, they pick Batty over one of these chaps.

In the one day arena, however, there's a lot more scope for the bowling all-rounder. Now, as I've seen a lot of Napier, I think he'd stand a good chance in the ODI arena to be a player a bit like Ealham. Rikki Clarke could probably fill a similar role but with better fielding capabilities than Napes. Mascarenhas, however, is in my opinion (i've seen a fair amount of him at Hants) a much better bowler than Clarke, and analogous in batting ability. Plus, he's hardly old (mid 20s?).

Still, I still fail to see the need for any of these 3 in a test side. Unless any of these players begins to show potential with the ball that could enable them to compete with Jones - in which case they could get the nod due to batting ability. Or begin to show better skills in batting to enable them to bat at #4 or #5, which is probably an even bigger leap in terms of ability, then I don't think they should get an international place.

Now, if as you say Rikki Clarke is improving, and continues to improve, then maybe he can succeed as i've outlined and his bowling begins to be able to compete in wicket taking terms with someone like Jones or his batting improves to enable him to fill a top order role, then he may have a role to play in the not too distant future. What I don't want to see is Clarke being called up to replace a current England team member in a role he is currently not up to scratch in playing in. We've seen this happen time and again over the years and ruin a young England cricketers career (c.f. Chris Schofield - now playing for Durham 2nd XI on a pay-as-you-play basis). The current England regime have been better than previous ones in this area, and I don't want to see them regressing to playing youngsters too early and destroying their confidence. As an example, I was not best pleased when England called Ali Cook up to the England A team to Sri Lanka. He did well enough in the end, but it could easily have destroyed his confidence coming off a none too successful first full season in County Cricket.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I'm quite bored by the whole game...hopeing that we will declare and get this farce over and done with by the end of today. Can't see them getting close to 250...

With respect, FF, that is rather selfish. If you're bored, go and do something which you find less boring. I'm listening to the radio and quite enjoying it. Sounds to me as though there are a few folk who have paid for tickets who are enjoying their day out as well.

[flanflinger]

OF,

I was joking slightly... this match has a feel of a county game... good and fun but slow and not a lot seems to be going on.

It is seriously lacking intensity, or a spark of genuis; something that will make it a really intresting game...

[Richard Jenkins]

i'd declare and bowl now. 30 overs and it's all over.

[Occasional Fan]

I guess no-one really expected it to set the world on fire. I really would prefer to see things carry on for a while, however. There are people who have paid money to see their teams play (including tomorrow). The result is surely not in doubt, and really never was. I know that not everyone thinks that professional sportsmen have an obligation to entertain, but I do. My guess is that we will have a declaration in about 70-80 minutes, probably a couple of wickets before the end of the day and then a finishing operation tomorrow.

[Rachael]

From a commercial point of view there's surely a case for Vaughan announcing during the final session that he will not declare until Flintoff has at least had a knock and (seeing as the punters would be ready for a lynching if Flintoff was taken off) not sooner than the fall of both Bell's and Flintoff's wicket / Sunday lunch (whichever came sooner).

That would be the "professional" thing to do... and I'm sure you state on another thread that you feel crcket's now a "professional" sport and a "business". :-)