Would England Have Won This Match Without Flintoff.

[Ernest]

Very rare does an all rounder score runs and takes wickets, but Flintoff is fast becoming a bowler, however I was not asking wheather Flintoff was the best player in the world, but the best all-rounder.

I have alway belived him to be so.

Zainub I know the poll question is differnet to the thread question, they are interconected, and I did not want to ask the same question twice.

To answer my own question, I have posted I thought Aussie would win at Lords,and England would win in the shires, Aussie could be favorites at the Oval, with a true pitch.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think he has proved beyond any doubt he is the best all rounder in the world, after what he dished up to the world champions.

Surprise, surprise: a bit of raw power unleased with bat and ball and you're off singing your hero's praises again. I'll grant you that he got a job done this Test... but please let's forget this Test VERY, VERY QUICKLY. The standard of cricket was pretty woeful.. and your man stood out more for his determination to do a basic job as solidly as ever as all around him fell away as for actuually providing anything very special.

I still don't think he's got the footwork or touch of a top order bat.. and I'm as despairing as ever of him ever mastering the subtleties that make bowling worth watching... but credit where it's due: he can do a job that no other no 7 bat and 1st change bowler could have matched.

Let's just hope the Aussies can sort him out at the Old Trafford Test :-)

[Zainub]

I think it's even stevens now ...both sides will believe they have an equal chance of winning on from here on in. Though I presume Australia will be hoping badly for McGrath to get fit and England the opposite.

[Cricket Girl]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I still don't think he's got the footwork or touch of a top order bat.. and I'm as despairing as ever of him ever mastering the subtleties that make bowling worth watching... but credit where it's due: he can do a job that no other no 7 bat and 1st change bowler could have matched.
Let's just hope the Aussies can sort him out at the Old Trafford Test :-)

Here is the normally super-critical Geoff Boycott on Flintoff's bowling. I have italicised certain parts.

"He bowled a beautiful over to get Justin Langer and Ricky Ponting. He totally worked Ponting over, bowling full-ish balls on a fantastic line about nine inches outside off stump, which always troubles him early in his innings. It was an over of absolute cricket theatre that was worth the admission price alone. For a connoisseur of cricket it was unmissable. He made the ball spit off the pitch and carry through to the keeper at chest height...I've always though that Flintoff was the one England player who would walk into the Australian side. When Harmison is at his best he might get in as well, but Flintoff is an absolutely world-class allrounder and he proved it on the third day."

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I still don't think he's got the footwork or touch of a top order bat.. and I'm as despairing as ever of him ever mastering the subtleties that make bowling worth watching... but credit where it's due: he can do a job that no other no 7 bat and 1st change bowler could have matched.

No 6 with a bat Rachael, was he not subtle when he swung the ball at nearly 94mph, produced reverse swing, seamed the ball both ways at times, just how subtle do you want him to be?.

Originally Posted by Rachael

Let's just hope the Aussies can sort him out at the Old Trafford Test :-)

why?, are you at last declaring yourself a supporter of Australia, or like I said -why?.

[cantplaycantalk]

A few points before all us England supporters get too over excited.

1. If Ponting had chosen to bat I suspect we would have just been kissing goodbye to the ashes.
2. Without McGrath the series will be a close run thing, if he comes back for one or two tests, then bar additional injuries you would have to back Australia.
3. Warne is one of the greatest bowlers of all time and he is the difference between the two teams at the moment, how many would you fancy England to chase in a final innings with Warne playing? How many without Warne?.

Still a good victory for England today, nearly threw it away but well done in the end. I remember saying well before this series that England are a good team getting better, and Australia are a great team getting old, feels like the gap is narrowing faster than I expected.

[Kirsty Harris]

Flintoff was awesome in this match, and his performance represents one of the finest all-round performances by an English bowler.

However, it wasn't quite a one man show - he was well supported by his fellow bowlers in both innings. It was a good collective effort.

I don't think for a minute that England could have won this game without Freddie, but he wouldn't have been able to do it without support from Simon Jones while batting in the 2nd innings.

[rineet]

Its rare to get such all round performances from cricketers these days. I think without Flintoff, England would have lost the match. His batting with Simon Jones was the turning point of the game. Also, its too early to predict the winner of the Ashes. We saw how close the Aussies brought the game. Any other team would have buckled under pressure and lost the game by minimum of 50 runs. But its difficult to get even the wicket of Australia's No. 11. The Ashes can go either way and England have to play out of their skins to claim the series.

[Dans]

I think the accolade of greatest all rounder in the world says little given the competition for that title in Test cricket at present. Furthermore, he really needs to prove his worth throughout the series, not just in one game. Whilst I appreciate the question that started this thread, a more appropriate question might be this:

would we have won this game had McGrath been fit?

There's no doubting the contribution Flintoff made in this game, but I can't help but feel that the Aussies without McGrath are sorely lacking a player who would have done as much if not more damage to England as Warnie did.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Dans

a more appropriate question might be this:
would we have won this game had McGrath been fit?

I must admit I as a rule don't go by stats, but a lot do, and McGrath according to his stats was better of not playing on this Edgbaston ground, becuase he has taken very few wickets for a lot, about 8 @ 47

Originally Posted by Dans

There's no doubting the contribution Flintoff made in this game, but I can't help but feel that the Aussies without McGrath are sorely lacking a player who would have done as much if not more damage to England as Warnie did.

Here is one to ponder, had McGrath been in and batting in place of Lee or Kaspa, would Aussie got as close to Englands score?.