Australia clearly the better team

[cantplaycantalk]

Also approximately half of Englands first choice XI were out injured, and a few of the second choices were too.

Can't remember exactly who was playing apart from Collingwood, Giles and Read, but it was a very different and seriously weakened team.

Remember this is an England side which is STILL developing and improving, rather than over the hill and sledging its way down the other side.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Microshocker

The English team has some weak spots, which may perform in a series or two, but in the long run wont be any good: Giles, Vaughan, Bell, Simon Jones

I like our weak spots - 3 Wickets for Giles, 6 for S Jones... 166 runs for Vaughanie and over 100 runs in the game for Bell..

Any other weak spots?

Right onto the subject Australia are the better team.. at the moment but this is a sign of things to come... All the players - apart from Lee, Ponting and Clarke - are now past their peak..

They are still though the better team, however England are the first real bowling attack they have come up against and they are clearly struggling.. Good for the World game to have a proper challenger to the No 1 crown...

[Pete]

Originally Posted by cantplaycantalk

Can't remember exactly who was playing apart from Collingwood, Giles and Read, but it was a very different and seriously weakened team.

Here are some of the other players.. Richard Johnson, James Kirtley, Mark Butcher, Gareth Batty, Nasser Hussain, James Anderson.

[Leafy Seadragon]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

When we lost the first test, most england fans gave credit where it was due ie fantastic performances from mcgrath and warne. Aussies cant or wont do that and I think its a shame.

Harsh generalisation. Spur of the moment comment or an honest perception?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Kirsty Harris

That was a poor tour by England, but I think they learned a lot from their mistakes, as they haven't looked back since!!

Grrrr. That was NOT a poor tour! Sure, some of the batting was exposed... but no worse than it has been since in collapses against the WI, NZ, SA and now Aus... and I really am getting exasperated at the continual knocking of Sri Lanka as a Test side: that's a damn fine side... and with Murali in top form (complete with perfected doosra it was a very, VERY tough series - which England should have survived with 3 draws.

Prior to this series the tour of Sri Lanka was by far the toughest this current Aussie Test side had ever faced... and whilst the Aussies won... it took a mix of brilliance and great fortune to get there. England's performance, given the absense through injury of Harmison, Jones and Caddick... was damn creditable.

How's this current lot better? Strauss is playing in place of Hussain... that's a fair swap. Pietersen's in for Butcher... but Butcher had a great tour of Sri Lanka... emerging with more credit than any other England batsman: that's not an obvious improvement (yet). Read was in for Jones.. and right now I'd rather have Read. The pitches demanded a second spinner so we played Batty... who remains this team's second spinner even if he isn't being used right now. Collingwood was first reserve batsman... and still is... and in 4 innings he also played damn well: a reassuring competence in rearguard actions that rivalled anything Australia have produced at Edgbaston and old Trafford!

The obvious difference from then to now, of course, is that Flintoff's improved as a bowler (though he did a decent job in Sri Lanka that tour anyway)... but (injuries apart) that's about it!

[Beny]

All the players - apart from Lee, Ponting and Clarke - are now past their peak..

Gee... Didd'nt they say something like that about Warne and McGrath...?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Beny

Gee... Didd'nt they say something like that about Warne and McGrath...?

LOL :-) Quality players don't fade except through major injury problems (e.g. Botham, Gough). Those with anything much abut them (Gooch, Hick, Ramprakash, Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Hadlee, Steve Waugh, Lara, Russell, etc) just mature into a glorious final few seasons in which they become a real joy to behold.

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Rachael

(Gooch, Hick, Ramprakash, Walsh, Ambrose, Pollock, Hadlee, Steve Waugh, Lara, Russell, etc) just mature into a glorious final few seasons in which they become a real joy to behold.

Steve Waugh? I don't think he was ever a 'joy to behold' - a fantastic player, but not fun to watch in the same way as Allan Border. You knew he was going to make runs, it might be good, but not a 'joy'. Mark Waugh on the other hand, now watching him was a joy when he was going well (though granted this was only about 75% of the time at his peak, and he'd probably do something silly the other 25%, but when he was good, he was great!!)

Similar thing with Ramps or Hick, except they were only a joy to watch 25% of the time, when they fired - it was great, but some of the abject ways they were dismissed over the years really let them down.

[Sean Beynon]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Strauss is playing in place of Hussain... that's a fair swap.

Don't agree with you there I'm afraid - Strauss has, in his short career, shown an outstanding ability to quietly, unobtrusively and sensibly dominate opposition bowlers. I can rarely remember Hussain doing the same.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Sean Beynon

Don't agree with you there I'm afraid - Strauss has, in his short career, shown an outstanding ability to quietly, unobtrusively and sensibly dominate opposition bowlers. I can rarely remember Hussain doing the same.

Hussain's late career, from 2001 until he retired, was a match for both Trescothick's career in that period and Butcher's career in that period. Not spectacular, but solid.. and there was always that sense that he thrived in adversity, in tough conditions and when the ball was really dominating (as exemplified in that morning session in the WI recently.. where he took all the blows and forgot about each play and miss and just kept the bat on the line of the stumps no matter what ball was bowled.

Strauss, by contrast, seems something of a southern softie: he's been brought up on some of the best batting tracks in the country... and has turned into a back-foot specialist who rather relies on true bounce and very little in the way of lateral movement. I have a lot of time for him... but he's not the man for a tough Test innings as Hussain was - more the man to bat the opposition out of the game on a good track.

Different.. but a fair swap.

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon 64668

Steve Waugh? I don't think he was ever a 'joy to behold' - a fantastic player, but not fun to watch [...] Similar thing with Ramps or Hick, except they were only a joy to watch 25% of the time, when they fired - it was great, but some of the abject ways they were dismissed over the years really let them down.

Steve Waugh was fun to watch whenever the bowlers were on top and his team were in a mess: you could almost see the obstinacy :-)

Re: Ramps and Hick... you're a seasoned county watcher... have there been many finer sights in the past 2-3 seasons? Ramps was doing it again for Surry yesterday: the torygraph report spoke very highly about his play.