Australia clearly the better team

[greg]

Originally Posted by Beny

I'm sorry but I'm just trying to think right now, what England fans would be saying if they we're missing Harmison and Flintoff and we had McGrath and Gillespie back to full boil.... Might they be saying that this has not been no1 v no2 because England were missing the two players who make them a class outfit?

No we wouldn't because we have got used to taking you on with an understrength team over the years.We just get on with it and hope they are good enough.I've never made excuses for being beaten before,injuries are just as much a part of the game as a poor umpiring decision.We warned you that your players were old and would get injured but you laughed it off.After it has happened you have moaned more than your captain.

See it as it is for once,England are 2-1 up having beaten the BEST side that Australia have been able to put out.You still have a game left to pull it round.Let's hope we see less talk and more action from the Aussies in the last game.

[Beny]

We warned you that your players were old and would get injured but you laughed it off.

Our players are fitter than yours

the BEST side that Australia have been able to put out.

The excuse of the happily deluded.

You have not beaten the best side Australia has... You have beaten a side which has been struck down with bad luck (people tripping on cricket balls and falling out of form)... If this had been the Aussie side of two months ago then you would not have won. And McGrath is not finished anymore than Jones is.

This is'nt about what team England put out in 2000... Does anybody have doubts that they would have been beaten anyway?

[Six & Out]

Originally Posted by Beny

You have beaten a side which has been struck down with bad luck (people tripping on cricket balls and falling out of form)... If this had been the Aussie side of two months ago then you would not have won. And McGrath is not finished anymore than Jones is.

Well, you're losing, you would be 3 - 1 down if it wasn't due to rain and as for "out of form"? Hayden didn't look out of form in the county match. The fact is your "superstar" batsman aren't as good as we all thought they were against decent bowling.

This is merely a window into a future of the Aussies without Warne and McGrath. Its leaner years to come for Australian Cricket.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Beny

We're not making excuses. We're pointing out facts. England cannot claim to have beaten the Aussies at full strength. .

You lot are all beginning to sound like Ponting! Are you programmed that way at school?

When was the last time the Aussies beat a full strength England side over an entire series? We manage to play almost every series with loads of injuries yet you proclaim your side to be wonderful. When we do it you belittle our achievements. Your team came over here as arrogant as any team that's ever taken the field in an International cricket match. That you won the first Test really didn't help you. Now you've lost a game or two - the margins are completely irrelevant - YOU LOST, LIVE WITH IT!! - you start moaning about the umpires, the tosses, substitutes, your injuries. Should you win at The Oval you will proclaim in a great victory even if England are without Jones - hypocrisy.

Ask yourselves how many umpiring decisions go for and against you throughout a year - Pakistan were disgracefully affected in the Series down under earlier this year. Consider the fact that some of our bowlers might actually be quite good, that your batsmen are not able to play their normal game because of them. Two teams play these matches therefore two sides decide how things turn out, it's not always a case of "Australia won the match" or "Australia threw it away".

As for those who predicted that Australia would win 5-0 !! And those who predicted a comfortable Australian victory at Trent Bridge ! What happened???

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

When was the last time the Aussies beat a full strength England side over an entire series? We manage to play almost every series with loads of injuries yet you proclaim your side to be wonderful.

Well said. Top players like Atherton, Hick, Ramprakash and Crawley all played Tests in Australia under the same strain that Shane Warne has been playing this series: convinced they have to produce something superhuman to carry a side that's missing key elements and got all the luck going against it.

Now all credit to Shane Warne.. he's a champion and has risen to the occasion in a way that successive potential England matchwinners have not... but the performance of the mere mortals in the Aussie side.. damn fine players who fully deserve consideration for a world XI.. like Langer, Ponting, Martyn and (in most peopes eyes) Gilchrist... surely suggests that the successive England sides who WERE defeated deserve a bit more credit.

[greg]

I have decided that after all Ponting's moaning that this thread should be renamed.

Australia clearly the BITTER team

[Six & Out]

*applauds Notts Exiles post*

Couldn't have said it better.

[Cricket Girl]

And of course, the problem with focussing all your energy on bad umpiring decisions/whether subs should be on the pitch or not is that you lose sight of the real reasons you are doing badly. England did this throughout the 90s - I can remember us having several bad decisions going against us and then all the focus would be on that. As an England fan, I am very pleased to see Ponting still going on about the subs issue, because it is hopefully distracting him from the fact that his batsmen haven't come to terms with England's bowling attack yet. That's the real reason Australia are losing this series, not any rubbish about sub fielders and bad decisions.

Incidentally, in the 2nd innings of the Edgbaston Test, England had two poor decisions given against them simultaneously - both Bell and Pietersen, when looking well-set, were given out when they hadn't touched the ball. Gilchrist and Warne appealed vociferously for both these decisions (so enough of this talk about England's appeal for Katich's wicket). This was an absolute hammer blow for England, but people are forgetting it now because Flintoff came in, batted brilliantly and ensured we (just) had enough runs on the board to win. After Katich was given out unfairly in the last Test, the difference was that the Aussie big hitter, Adam Gilchrist, didn't produce the goods and Australia therefore didn't get enough runs on the board to win.

Decisions that go against you are forgotten when you win and become everything when you lose.

As for the 'bad luck' of tripping on a cricket ball - if our premier fast bowler had been injured playing touch rugby ten minutes before a massively important Test, our management would have been torn apart for their lack of professionalism, their shoddy preparation compared to the ruthless, leave-nothing-to-chance approach of the Aussies, their amateurishness, their general cluelessness. But this happens to Mcgrath and it's just 'bad luck'. Right.

[Cricket Girl]

And another thing - Hayden and Gillespie might be out of form, but there's no way Gilchrist is - he came into this series on the back of a hundred in the NW Trophy and two hundreds in his last three Tests. He's not out of form, he's just been found out. Bad luck.

[Beny]

Perhaps I should let the English delude themselves? Your right guys... well done you've done the amazing.

Here is the thing though. Everybody said at the start of this series that Australia were only guarenteed a win if McGrath and Warne were fit... Ooops McGrath has'nt been and on top of that our third seamer has been gone and the pitches have'nt helped Warne. Remember what happened at Lords though? When the English batsmen looked out of their depth and that was against a side who were leaking runs and releasing preassure through Gillespie. Your much vaunted test attack is still nothing compared to the 'three richard hadlee's and the greatest spinner of all time'... You have'nt beaten the best side in the world. You've beaten an Aussie side which is severely depleated. Can you understand that I dont care that you have outplayed Australia? The point is that it has been an empty victory against a depleted side.

Australia's bowling should have been able to make up for the poor batting proformance. But even then, poor decisions have stopped people like Martyn having a chance to save the innings.