Pathan: Most Promising Young Bowler?

[DaveGillespie]

jones mainly due to the ashes, the Safricans were not overly bothered by him, nor the WIdians

Basil D'Oliveira Trophy (Eng/SA) in South Africa, 2004/05 [Series]
Eng 4 123.1 400 15 4/39 5/78 26.66 3.24 49.2 0 0

Pretty decent series, that.

Plus, his first series against WI was his first back from injury in which he returned the following statistics, pretty decent given the fact that he'd played one first class game for England A before the tour.

The Wisden Trophy (Eng/WI) in West Indies, 2003/04 [Series]
Eng 4 94 374 11 5/57 6/101 34.00 3.97 51.2 1

He was injured for most of the home series vs WI and vs NZ, but in the one test against New Zealand the kiwi's didn't know whether it was christmas or easter against him. He was extremely unlucky to pick up just the one wicket.

For the record, I reckon that Fidel Edwards has the most potential of any young bowler around currently. 95mph outswingers will do for anyone.

[Rachael]

I surprised Fidel got your vote there Dave: sure, he is going to bowl some cracking deliveries... but with that odd action... he's up there with Tait in the list entitled "bowlers asking for trouble". That's not to suggest either will just fade away as rapidly as James Anderson has done... but there's so little margin for error in what each of them do.. and every likelihood that they will struggle, mightily, on a regular basis.

Can either youngster progress to the point where the captain can set them a 7-2 field and expect them to bowl to it? Surely too soon to say.

I'd back Irfan Pathan to be a far more complete bowler than either, though:

Originally Posted by Dileep Premachandran, "Reviving a lost tradition"

Statistics don't reveal what a wonderful find Pathan has been. In an age when swing bowling has become something of a forgotten art, he shapes the ball in and out quite beautifully. His figures from four Tests against Australia may look unimpressive, but his in-your-face attitude and the fact that he knocked over batsmen of the quality of Steve Waugh and Adam Gilchrist earned him immediate respect from the opposition. It was the same case in Pakistan when the numbers didn't quite reveal his hold over the top-order batsmen, especially Yousuf Youhana who was made to look like a fumbling novice.

Wasim Akram has apparently hailed this youngster and waxed lyrical over a glorious wrist position reminiscen tof his own. High praise :-)

[DaveGillespie]

When I see Fidel bowling, I can't help but think he'd be absolute dynamite if he can exhibit a modicum of control on a more regular basis. Watching him rip out the England top 3 of Vaughan, Trescothick and Butcher in classical fashion on two occasions (two caught in the slips, two caught behind and two bowled) with unplayable spells of bowling in 2003/04 will stick in my mind for a long time. I feel there is hope for him; while we see lots of bowlers who are capable of bowling two or three good balls in an over and the rest dross, when Edwards gets it right he is on the money every ball.

Now, if he can just play two games in a row without breaking down....

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Rachael

asim Akram has apparently hailed this youngster and waxed lyrical over a glorious wrist position reminiscen tof his own. High praise :-)

Indeed, that is high praise. But one of my criticisms of Pathan, one Wasim him self shared (whilst commentating) is that he gets a bit too obsessed with swinging the ball. Alright, alright, that is how you should want to get all your wickets, but if the conditions are not allowing any swing to materialize then pitching the ball up constantly is being asked to be driven through cover and extra for four, or if you have Afridi opening the batting, like it was in India, all the way over cover for six: dumped into the stands. I'm sure some one will reply to this post saying Mickey Mouse cricket doesn’t count, but there were some basic and glaring errors he and rest of the Indian bowlers made in their bowling in that series, and in particular to bowling to Afridi, that I have been unable to get out of mind.



I also know that a lot of people look back to his performance in Pakistan and Australia, which I personally rate as simply promising and somewhat commendable without being out standing. But his performances in far less helpful pitches in India (against Pakistan and South Africa in 2004) weren't that flattering, I can't recall him getting much swing either. There are two sides to every coin. Pathan looks impressive when there is swing on offer or when the opposition is not up to it, he looks fairly ordinary in opposite scenarios. And he'll have to change that, sooner or later, if he's looking to have long and successful test career.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by butchering lee

Nel, Balaji ...i wonder what thier stats are against decent opposition)...seing as they've really only played one side (nel-WI and Balaji-pak) ...

Andre Nel has played against Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, West Indies and England so far.


Lakshmipathy Balaji has played against New Zealand and Pakistan.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Zainub

One of my criticisms of Pathan: he gets a bit too obsessed with swinging the ball [...] if the conditions are not allowing any swing to materialize then pitching the ball up constantly is being asked to be driven [...] Pathan looks impressive when there is swing on offer or when the opposition is not up to it, he looks fairly ordinary in opposite scenarios.

I've no problem with any bowler pitching the new ball up and looking for movement... and between conventional swing and reverse swing (he's supposedly adept at both) you'd hope he'd have many other opportunities as well... but sure: knowing when to go to plan 'b' is critical.

That said.... he's just a kid!

On the broader question: when the ball is swinging few batsmen look up to it... and when it's not... cricket should ideally be handed over to spinners! With Harbhajan and Kumble available... India should not be forced, as SA so often have been, to bowl seamers in unhelpful conditions.

Even Pollock, McGrath, Vaas and Lee can struggle on truly unhelpful pitches: it's an inditement of the pitches not the bowler!

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Even Pollock, McGrath, Vaas and Lee can struggle on truly unhelpful pitches: it's an inditement of the pitches not the bowler!

Of course they can (and do) struggle. But they struggle only to get wickets, not to if you ask them to hold one end up, go for less then 3 an over, and bowl 25 overs like that in a day. They do that day in day out. I'm not sure Pathan at this stage has that much control, and that as you noted since he's only 20 odd years old, is understandable, and hence some what pardonable. However, considering the sheer number of unhelpful pitches in test cricket now-a-days, bowlers will simply have to know how to bowl on them. Pollock, McGrath and Vaas have already learned and mastered that art, Lee in on his way, and if Pathan is to take 200 test wickets or more, it shall invariably depend upon his very progress in this department.

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Zainub

Andre Nel has played against Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, West Indies and England so far.


Lakshmipathy Balaji has played against New Zealand and Pakistan.

i know but 1 game (maybe 2) against the ones you mention....however, against the ones I said they played 3,4? ... from memory - at least 3 !!?

[Paoli]

Nel played one test...and it was in early 2002, as you can see not the best time. South Africa had moved on Hayward, Donald and Klusener from the test scene.

In that test he really struggled.

[Zainub]

Nel was part of South African squad that lost the test series 1-0 to us in Summer of 2003, he bowled well without much success. He had a far better one-day series, which SA won 3-2 after being 0-2 at one stage.