Pathan: Most Promising Young Bowler?

[Colourful Chaddi]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

So, Waseem, you think that Pathan is the best seamer India has produced and the world's most promising bowler? I don't doubt the first one; there aren't many good Indian seamers going around, but the world's most promising bowler; please, save that one for when he stars in a series win against a very, very good team.

Paolio69, i diffinatly believe Irfan Pathan is the best seamer India have produced since Kapil Dev. If you look back zince Kapil Dev's retirement there have been no quality fast bowler, the best since then has been Javagal Srinath but he always choked when it mattered (World cup final 2003).

You have to remember that he is only 20 years old and only into his second season. I think in the future with some experince and coaching he could become a great seamer. He has deadly in-swinger which has put some top quality batsmen under pressure (just ask Yousuf Yohana), he is also has a effective off-cutter which he uses cleverly. If you look at the fast bowlers under the age of 23 in cricket today, Irfan Pathan has the most potentail then all of them. At his age he is carrying the Indian attack which shows his talent and temperment. I think he would play well when he goes abroad because the picthes in the sub-contienet are just too flat, even Denis Lillie Stuggled on them. If he plays in England the pitches and conditions will suit his bowling incredibily.

Paoli69, if you don't think Irfan Pathan is the most promising bowler in cricket at the moment please tell me another one.

[Zainub]

Just my opinion this but if we're talking about "most promising seamer in world cricket" I personally rate the following as much more promising then Pathan (in no particular order):

Dwayne Bravo, Fidel Edwards, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Umar Gul, Shaun Tait, Simon Jones, Laxmipathy Balaji, Andre Nel and Daryl Steyn.

Pathen is promising, but if he is the most promising, I personally doubt.

[Colourful Chaddi]

Originally Posted by Zainub

Just my opinion this but if we're talking about "most promising seamer in world cricket" I personally rate the following as much more promising then Pathan (in no particular order):

Dwayne Bravo, Fidel Edwards, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Umar Gul, Shaun Tait, Simon Jones, Laxmipathy Balaji, Andre Nel and Daryl Steyn.

Pathen is promising, but if he is the most promising, I personally doubt.

How many of these bowlers are carrying there attacks on thier shoulders at the age of 20? Simon Jones and Andre Nel are really good bowlers but are they 2o years old playing on unhelpful pitches? Rana Naved-ul-Hasan and Umar Gul both are very good bowlers from pakistan but they both get support from Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammed Sami. The same could be said about Shaun tait who gets support from Glenn MaGrath and Brett Lee, who does Irfan Pathan get support from?

[Zainub]

Dwayne Bravo did carry the attack on his shoulders when West Indies faced England last summer, not only with ball, but almost with the bat as well.

And I'm sorry I wish that was the case, but it is your sad misunderstanding the Gul and Naved-ul-Hasan get "support" from Sami and Akhtar. Sami (who averages about 40 with the ball in test cricket) is very much in need of support him self all the time (some thing that he doesn't get, from the fielders at least!). And Akhtar, is often percieved as being largely self-obsessed, and accused of doing just the opposite of what you suggest i.e. being a bad influence on the younger players in the side and/or not being a good enough role model for them. And he's been injuired half of last season anyway (didn't travel with the team to India, was left out of the WI tour on fitness grounds, and came back half way through the tour from Australia) so it's all been the other way round - our younger bowlers have had to carry the attack on their own in his absence. Now to Gul and Rana them self, the former hasn't exactly played that much cricket with Sami and Akhtar, and in the one of the test matches he did he took about 7 wickets if I'm remembering correctly, got man of the match and we won by plenty. Gul too has had a long time away from cricket, having played his last a test match back in 2003. Rana on the other hand isn't always an regular feature in our test team, and in the one-day team he's been our out and out best bowler for the last 2 seasons now - he's the one who has been supporting everyone else rather then others supporting him.


My question is not over Pathan's potential, he does have some. But it seems inappropriate that people should tip him to do great things when he's only this early in his test career. Comparisions with the great Kapil Dev are well and truely far fetched, if Pathan is the next best all rounder India have produced after him, it's not a compliment to Pathen but merely a reflection of how Indian cricket's been unsuccessful in producing world class all rounders (as have been most cricket teams for that matter). By my standards Pathan is no better then an Ashley Giles type batsman, a relibale no 7's test bat in other words, no more, no less, I for once don't expect his batting (or his bowling for that matter) to achieve the calibre of Kapil Dev's.

[Colourful Chaddi]

Originally Posted by Zainub

My question is not over Pathan's potential, he does have some. But it seems inappropriate that people should tip him to do great things when he's only this early in his test career. Comparisions with the great Kapil Dev are well and truely far fetched, if Pathan is the next best all rounder India have produced after him, it's not a compliment to Pathen but merely a reflection of how Indian cricket's been unsuccessful in producing world class all rounders (as have been most cricket teams for that matter). By my standards Pathan is no better then an Ashley Giles type batsman, a relibale no 7's test bat in other words, no more, no less, I for once don't expect his batting (or his bowling for that matter) to achieve the calibre of Kapil Dev's.

I have never compared Irfan Pthan to the Kapil Dev, the only thing i said was that he was the best potential since him.

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Zainub

Just my opinion this but if we're talking about "most promising seamer in world cricket" I personally rate the following as much more promising then Pathan (in no particular order):

Dwayne Bravo, Fidel Edwards, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Umar Gul, Shaun Tait, Simon Jones, Laxmipathy Balaji, Andre Nel and Daryl Steyn.

Pathen is promising, but if he is the most promising, I personally doubt.

it's hard to say "the most promising" but in terms of statistics (which is what Bal's article was based on) are any of the above any better?

i personally rate Nel, Balaji and jones quite highly (which i feel i can do having actually seen a bit of them, where i usually base my opinions on stats and commentary - tho' i wonder what thier stats are against decent opposition). seing as they've really only played one side (nel-WI and Balaji-pak) it's hard to judge statisically but nel is bringing his ave down constantly and has taken laras wkt umpteen times and balaji had an awful intro against NZ then came back hard against pak.

it seems only bravo and jones have records that stands up to scrutiny - and jones mainly due to the ashes, the Safricans were not overly bothered by him, nor the WIdians.

steyn has a 50 ave against england (not as good a batting lineup as oz, nor pak - if i'm at liberty to voice my opinion) N-ul-H: isn't he late 20's with a pretty awful record against quality lineups? Gul had a good series against india but anything else doesn't stand out in my mind (feel free to remind me). Tait has an over 40 ave against eng. - pathan debuted against a far stronger oz batting side than the england which just won the ashes and after about a 140 ave after his 1st test he did bring it down to 70 . **

i remember when fidel took a bunch of wkts in the beginning but i feel like he's falling away - i haven't seen him lately (well, since his 5fer vs. zim) but looking at his cumulative career ave it's climbed steadily (not good for a bowler really) his last series was great tho i see!

btw - nel

unfiltered 15 545.3 1578 62 6/32 10/88 25.45 2.89 52.7 3 1
filtered 3 82.5 227 9 4/53 5/86 25.22 2.74 55.2 0 0


filtered = zim (if he can't take those wkts - yet pathan's taking them doesn't count 'cos they're meaningless...?)


** - stats not thoroughly checked more memory but i think close enough(?)

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by Waseem

Paoli69, if you don't think Irfan Pathan is the most promising bowler in cricket at the moment please tell me another one.

Already been said, but: Simon Jones. It just seems as if you're singing Irfan Pathan's praises after he takes wickets, he took them against Zimbabwe. I've no doubt he is a promising bowler, but you said he is the most promising bowler after a series against Zimbabwe!

Simon Jones is by far the best new bowling talent on the block. Another one is Andre Nel, when he is fit and firing he can pose problems to very good batting lineups. Dwayne Bravo is no better than Medium Fast, so although he is promising, he's still got a lot of improving to do to reach star status.

Who are others, just thinking: Shaun Tait (did you see when he got Trescothick out Waseem), Naved-ul-Hasan (carried the Pakistan attack throughout the ODI series in Australia, and then for tests and ODI's in India) and another is Shane Bond; proven, you might say, but I can't wait for him to hit his straps

Originally Posted by Zainub

My question is not over Pathan's potential, he does have some. But it seems inappropriate that people should tip him to do great things when he's only this early in his test career.

They are very much my sentiments.

[Colourful Chaddi]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

Simon Jones is by far the best new bowling talent on the block.

But he is 28 years old and is playing in a winning team unlike Irfan pathan is in the Indian team. Simeon Jones doesn't have to carry the whole attack on his sholders because he has other quality bowlers like Stephen Harmison, Andrew Flintoff, Ashley Giles and Matthew Hoggard. Irfan Pathan is carrting the whole attack for India, he has nobody to support him like Simon Jones. Also Simon Jones is not playing on the pitches in India like Irfan Pathan does half of the time a season.

[ahsan32]

Waseem u said earlier that Rana Naved Ul Hassan gets Support from Sami and Shoaib, But as far as my observations go Rana took charge of the attack when both of these had problems and since than he is leading the Pakistani bowling attack. Sami came back but Rana is still carrying the Pakistani Bowling Attack On His Shoulders

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by Waseem

But he is 28 years old

26, my friend.

As for the rest of your post, you should've made it clear earlier, by saying: Given the circumstances he is playing in Irfan Pathan is the most promising young paceman.