Giles and Panesar to play against Pakistan?

[Collyisamackem]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Giles is an adequate Test spinner, he is not great and nor would he claim to be. His main strength can hold up strength is that he can hold up an end, and when conditions suit he can use his height to extract bounce which can cause problems. He can also bat and is a very fine fielder. But he will never rip through a team in unfavorable conditions and bowls too much over the wicket, trying to get some sideways movement from the rough.

and try and get Anderson back to come in for Plunkett (who has done all that has been asked of him).

I would look towards getting Monty in the team, in place of Giles, next summer.

1) Agreed.

2) Bit harsh on Plunkett, he was one of our better bowlers overall and took a fair few wickets in the series. Besides, Anderson is injured.

3) Agreed, we need Gilo's experience for the Ashes both the bowliung and batting (plus the excellent gully catching and oddd run otu he manages), but I'd take Monty on the trip to get him used to the atmosphere in Australia, and if Giles was injured I'd play him straight away.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

2) Bit harsh on Plunkett, he was one of our better bowlers overall and took a fair few wickets in the series. Besides, Anderson is injured.

Fully agree that Plunkett has done well, it's just that if you had a choice between a fit Anderson or Plunkett, at this stage of their careers I know who I would go for.

I look forward to seeing them both lead the attack two or three years down the line.

I would also take Monty to Oz, but he would only play at the SCG or if Giles isn't fit. The experience of Oz will do him good, I do fear that the Australian crowds will form a similar opinion of him as they did Phil Tufnell, certainly with regards to his fielding. The difference between the two players though is attitude, and Monty's attitude to the game may win him more friends down under than the Cat ever did.

[Vrock]

I would have Giles playing before Monty in Australia every time, risking two spinners would be like playing two medium pacers as we did in the last test against Bangladesh. And we know what happened there.

Also, the llack of variety would just be another burden on the lack of wickets from Giles, so Giles wouldn't get his bit of variety wickets when the ball does spin for once.

No need to sacrifice your strength for what is a weakness.

Monty's fielding is poor, but that will improve greatly if he continues to put the same high level of effort he is now. Giles should only be playing if he is proven fit, no point in him getting injured again and unsettling the side.

The fact is, in future our strength will still be pace bowling, why limit the chance of a youngster maturing now just for the sake of keeping down the runs or protecting the side as a whole? The guy will have to play in the end anyway.

[Collyisamackem]

He will, but his intorduction to the side has to be managed well. Besides, Gilo deserves his place for at least one more Ashes tour because of the great service he has given over the past few years.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Vrock

I would have Giles playing before Monty in Australia every time, risking two spinners would be like

except at Sydney when the traditionally it favours spin, we have (occasionally) in the past always played two spinners, so it might come up in that Test.

For all the other Ashes Tests, one spinner and preferably Giles...

[darksideofthemoon]

Please no more Lewis. Harmison, Plunkett, Mahmood but I have a feeling Anderson will be back. He has finished his two months layoff and should be starting to bowl again should his scan be ok. I prefer Monty but Fletcher will stick with Giles when he is fit. A loyalty thing. Plus Giles is the captain's best friend.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

Plus Giles is the captain's best friend.

I don't think Vaughan has say in selection, so that doesn't come into it. The fact is that Giles has just a little more experience and may cope better with the Australians then Panesar, at this stage, I feel Monty will become first choice very soon, particularity if he keeps getting good batsman out often enough

[Vrock]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

I feel Monty will become first choice very soon, particularity if he keeps getting good batsman out often enough

I completely agree ff, and also if his other aspects of cricket keep improving.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

except at Sydney when the traditionally it favours spin, we have (occasionally) in the past always played two spinners, so it might come up in that Test.

On this issue, my only fear, which is shared by others on this board, will be that Giles are Panesar are bowlers in the same model. Yes, they do execute them in different ways but bowlers being too samey can only make things easier for a game which is already dominated by the batsman.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Rachael

.... given Pakistan's notorious weakness against spin (and the anticipated bowling crisis and unhelpful pitches) ...

Okay. So we have a notorious weakness against spin. I see. This is news to me. I guess we're so bloody pathetic at playing spin that not so long ago when we went to Murali's home soil, the same Murali that completely destroyed England on England's on surfaces, we managed to win the series against 1-0, on his pitches, on his home soil...we've surely got to have a "weakness" against spin. Surely. If Pakistan's got a "notorious weakness" against spin Rachael, then I don't quite know what word I should use to describe England's merits against spin. On the "anticipated bowling crisis" bit, again, I don't know what you're going about. We've got our bowling pretty sorted out, and at least on paper, given the form some of our bowlers have been showing in County Cricket, I'm not sure how you can presume we'll have a bowling crisis later on. If anything, its much more likely we'll have a batting crisis, even with Shoaib missing out, possibly from the first two tests. If you're on an aggenda to mock Pakistan then at least mock us for the right things. Our weakness is not spin or our bowling attack, its our batsmen and their techniques against quick bowling.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Zainub

Okay. So we have a notorious weakness against spin. I see. This is news to me.

I think it is news to all of us.