| | |
| |
| Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion. |
| |||||||
| | LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| ||||
| I think this emerged from some of the comments that said the umpires were within their rights to act as they did, as they were adhering to the laws of the game. I think there is already a discussion develoing in the media on this topic. I sense a movement calling for the laws to be changed.
__________________ Just what is going off out there? |
| ||||
| According to the rules the umpires have the say in what is fair play, and what is not. If there is a flaw it is not the fault of the umpires IMO, as the rules clearly state, Quote:
__________________ Ern |
| | ||||
| ||||
| How can the laws be changed Mongoose?, I mean are we to change the laws to allow ball tampering (a TMS commentator advocated just that) - failing that I don't see how any laws can be changed without undermining the umpires to such a degree that they are not in charge anymore. I feel that the game to some extent has been damaged, I just hope time is taken before attemping to change any laws - which have served us well until this week, in fact I think this Forfeit is the first ever in cricket. Hurried changes will without doubt lead to making a bad situation worse IMO.
__________________ Ern Last edited by Ernest : 21-08-2006 at 07:36 PM. |
| ||||
| Rashid Latif said: "So many people are involved, thousands are at the ground and millions are watching at home but one man has so much power." It seems to me that, according to the way the rules are currently written, the ICC will have to back Hair's decision if the ball looks like it was tampered with. Given that Doctrove was consulted before the decision was made it seems highly likely that the ICC will agree with the assessment that the ball does look like it was tampered with. As Rashid Latif righly says, without a Pakistani player being caught red-handed tampering with the ball it's a big call to besmirch the reputation of a team and its nation. Is this another rule that will depend on video evidence to call? If so, how does the rule apply where there is little or no camera coverage of the game? Where Rashid is wrong, I feel, is that he focuses the blame solely on Darrell Hair. But the rules state that the two umpires must consult each other so that the final decision is mutual. Many critics say that Hair acted unilaterally which isn't the case.
__________________ Administrator Last edited by admin : 21-08-2006 at 07:52 PM. |
| ||||
| Quote:
__________________ Just what is going off out there? |
| ||||
| I think this is also problematic, Mongoose. If an umpire fingers an individual without anyone else seeing the incident or without video evidence to back up his claim then the accused player can deny it and spark a huge diplomatic row similar to this incident.
__________________ Administrator |
| ||||
| With respect Mongoose we have not seen that ball for ourselves - and if the umpires did not have their powers, then a team (if they wish) could scratch away at will. Like everyone else I have thought about this matter, and I keep thinking being that everyone knows that Hair and the Pakistani's don't get on - why would Hair risk making a false call. But I can't say this enough times, the present laws have done the job for so many years, this has never happened before. If a mistake has been made, it was appointing Hair to officiate in this series in the first place. We need strong umpires or cricket will become like soccer IMO.
__________________ Ern |
| ||||
| Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________ Just what is going off out there? |
| |||
| Mongoose, the tampering law is as old as the hills - but you and Colly are right regarding the five penalty runs: can't remember when that came in, but it was recent. The other point which is older than Ern is that the umpires are the sole authority in determining fair and unfair play. I simply can't see that being changed as a result of this incident. If the ICC looks into the matter of the tampering ruling, it would be improper for them to consider the decision which the umpires actually made. The role of the referee and the ICC more broadly would (or should) simply be to consider whether the umpires acted properly in exercising a discretion: and that is a fairly easy review, I would suggest, since the discretion is clearly (and solely) the umpires'. Many comments have been made in other threads suggesting that the umpires "have no right" to accuse Pakistan of unlawfully altering the condition of the ball without presenting evidence. Well, that may be true in terms of natural justice - but it is not true in terms of what the Law says, and both teams know or should know what the Law says before they start playing. Any ICC review therefore should, in my view, simply find that the umpires (not just Darrell, but both of them) acted within the Law and legally exercised the power vested in and discharged the duties imposed upon them. That's the end of the matter, and it would be improper for the ICC then even to examine the ball. For a start, there is no way that an examination will reveal anything other than the ball's present condition - it won't show how the ball looked an over before it was changed; and secondly, the ICC, in my story, has just determined that the decision as to whether there had been an unlawful alteration was for the umpires to make, not the referee or the ICC. Wandering off the subject a bit, there are plenty of other areas of life in which administrators/civil servants are given executive powers which are not reviewable in courts of law, so this is not a complete affront to all that is decent about society. A case which comes to mind concerns a Czech lady (pre-EU membership) who was denied entry to the UK despite having a valid visa and an air ticket to leave the country within the period of the visa's validity. She had been denied entry by a senior immigration officer working at Heathrow, was understandably aggrieved and took the immigration service to the High Court to seek judicial review of the decision not to admit her. The High Court opined that the senior immigration officer had discretion under the law of the land to make the decision which he did (the lady had not even contested that, as her advice was that the law was clear in that regard - just as our Law 42 is). Having gone that far, the High Court refused to consider the substance of the decision itself, because to do so would be to fetter the discretion which the law gave to the senior immigration officer. The analogy is clear, I think: if the ICC reviews Hair and Doctrove's initial ruling on the Law 42(3) infringement, it will be interfering with the discretion of the umpires. That would not be proper. (None of this is to campaign against a change in the Law. My knee jerk reaction is that a Law which has worked for 300 years probably won't need changing because of this one incident, but I've not really thought that through. However, if the Law is to be changed, it should be done by the MCC - maybe in consultation with the ICC - through the appropriate channels. A referee's review of one incident would not, in my view, be an appropriate channel.)
__________________ Money won't buy you friends. But it gets you a better class of enemy. Spike Milligan |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |