The Aussie Ashes Thread

[SixandOut]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Like Bell was Ashes 2005, and did Flintoff capitulate under his ego also Ashes 2005? .

Bell has demonstrably improved since the last series, and the ego comment was aimed more directly at KP. Yes his 158 was series winning, but how many golden ducks has he had since then?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

In fact most normal people worry about his ability to play Warne.. but Ern is a bit different, had Bell been born in the Lancashire catchment area I am 100% convinced that Ern would champion him in the way he does Flintoff, Mahmood and Anderson....

Out of order FF - Does Read play for Lancashire? - does Key play for Lancashre?, does Ed Smith play for Lancashre?, or Ramprakash? all who I have devoted time for their recalls.

Players under contracts are not really county players any more, they are ENGLAND players, in any case is there any better than Flinoff Anderson or Mahmood?, if so I will give them credit when or if they prove it.

As for your stats - Bell was out 7 times to pace bowling - and 3 times to spin bowling, that proves a point.

And from the 7 pace bowlers - 3 from Lee and 1 from Tait made the majority from genuine quicks, Bells average in the Ashes 2005 gives some credence to my argument.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by SixandOut

the ego comment was aimed more directly at KP. Yes his 158 was series winning, but how many golden ducks has he had since then?

Since then? One duck. A golden duck against Pakistan at The Oval. Scored 96 in the 2nd Innings though!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by SixandOut

Bell has demonstrably improved since the last series, and the ego comment was aimed more directly at KP. Yes his 158 was series winning, but how many golden ducks has he had since then?

It's only a year ago and he has been out injured half of that time - being an all rounder he has contributed with wickets, and the small matter of captaining England to a test win in India, that's not often seen from an England captain.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Bells average in the Ashes 2005 gives some credence to my argument.

Some, but like most other people I feel Bell has come back from that Ashes and played well against the two of the top four teams in the world!! And is a much much better player than when he played in the Ashes.

We have argued this before, but if you judged Flintoff on his first three or four series, you would never have selected him again!! Bell has really only failed in one series, and yet you have written him off already!!

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Some, but like most other people I feel Bell has come back from that Ashes and played well against the two of the top four teams in the world!! And is a much much better player than when he played in the Ashes.

I have said before I agree that Bell has improved, but I am doubfull he will play Lee and Tait et al in Australia, I just have that feeling.
If England where to be touring say Pakistan or India - as a batsman I would put his on the plane before Flintoff, but IMO Flintoff will play pace better - for the reason he see's the ball early.

Originally Posted by flanflinger

if you judged Flintoff on his first three or four series, you would never have selected him again!! Bell has really only failed in one series, and yet you have written him off already!!

I took some stick both on the BBC (in the bad old days) and on here for my support for Flintoff, to be honest I never thought his batting would hve improved to the extent that it has, but I always had a feeling he would make it as a bowler, I never doubted that, and to be fair - I was right.

I have not written Bell off - i just think he's more suited to playing spin, or on Pak/Ind pitches.

[Nazza]

Ern, you don't really rate Mahmood........do you ?

[SixandOut]

Originally Posted by Notts Exile

Since then? One duck. A golden duck against Pakistan at The Oval. Scored 96 in the 2nd Innings though!

Hmm, I thought it was more. I was including the golden duck in the Twenty20. I'm critical of KP because he obviously has so much potential, but there has been a tendency recently for him to get a good start and not really go on. Looking over his record, though, it does read pretty well.

Don't get me wrong - I want him to destroy Australia, bat 10 times and score 10 hundreds. We can't rely on him, though, which is why the likes of Bell, Tresco, Strauss, maybe Cook, maybe Collingwood will be invaluable in bolstering the batting lineup.

[SixandOut]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I have not written Bell off - i just think he's more suited to playing spin, or on Pak/Ind pitches.

So when you're playing against the best spinner in the world, he'd be a pretty useful guy to have around, no?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Nazza

Ern, you don't really rate Mahmood........do you ?

Yes IMO he will make a good bowler, I know he gets carted at times, but i think he will improve, and his strike rate I think will more than compensate for his econ rate, he does have a knack of taking wickets out of the blue.

IMO he will make better bowler than Anderson .

Originally Posted by SIXANDOUT

So when you're playing against the best spinner in the world, he'd be a pretty useful guy to have around, no?

Fair question - but England are not thee best batting side, and would probably be in early I think he would probably not be there most times when Warne comes on to bowl, and the Assies know Bell's strengths,and could take Warne of if Bell comes in when he's bowling, and put lee or Tait on.