Tres coming home

[Milo]

I hate to repeat myself, but he should never have been there in the first place. Thorpe had to fight himself back nto the side where as Marcus simply walked up said he was ill, then he was OK, then ready, then not.

As for Joyce, we now are going into the toughest test series there is without a replacement opening batsman. Surely they aren't pinning all there hopes on Vaughan being ready for the third test.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

key or Ed Smith would have been a better replacement than Joyce.

It's a sorry looking lop sided England now have - if we are to retain the Ashes, then it's up to the bowlers IMO.

To be honest, I would personally have gone for Shah or Key, but as Joyce has been prolific at County level with a First Class average of 47.32 (Key averages 40.49 and Smith 40.62) for me I don't see how he is such a disastrous pick as you seem to think he is???

Also, I don't see how we are suddenly lop sided. We were going with 6 batters (including Fred) and 5 bowlers (ditto) we are still going with that. The only difference is Cook at the top (Remember where he started his career ) and Collingwood in the middle (and he has done a very good job since he came into the side) so I am not hitting the panic button yet, particularly as I have just seen the Aussie squad!!

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Milo

Thorpe had to fight himself back nto the side where as Marcus simply walked up said he was ill, then he was OK, then ready, then not.
Surely they aren't pinning all there hopes on Vaughan being ready for the third test.

All this makes an interesting juxtaposition for the thought of Vaughan declaring himself fit for the third Test.

"Well I'm the captain aren't I? Of course I should play. One year without a match is perfect preparation for the 'hardest series there is.'"

[Milo]

Couldn't have put it better myself Oliver. Expect Vaughan's offstump to disappear out the ground (seemingly playing down the wrong line to the UNPLAYABLE ball) quite a few times if he goes anywhere near Australia in the next few months.

[Oliver]

Isn't he there already? Giving post disaster interviews, and saying dull and boring things, almost as though he was already skipper.

"Where's my wife?" [shouts] "ASHLEY let's go and get some nosh" [whispering aside] "then I'll tell you how to nobble Monty."

[flanflinger]

First of all Vaughan is making a number of noises about his fitness, which are wholly inappropriate at this stage, and I firmly agree that he should get some Cricket behind him before he is even considered for a Test.

Secondly, I do though feel that if he is fit, and finds some form, then he could be considered. He would be an ideal No 3, would add an extra level of class to the middle order and some brains in the Captaincy department.

We have just lost Tres (with 5825 Test Runs - 14 hundreds at 43.79) so if we could find a place for a match fit Vaughan (4595 Test Runs - 15 Test hundreds at 42.94) it would only strength our chances in the Ashes...

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Oliver

"Well I'm the captain aren't I? Of course I should play. One year without a match is perfect preparation for the 'hardest series there is.'"

I'm not advocationg Vaughn's return, all I am saying is that Key or even Ed Smith would have been a better bet than Joyce, I think it was FF who compared the aberages of the three, but country averages mean nothing IMO when playing International cricket, I think England are going into this series with a very weak top batting order.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

First of all Vaughan is making a number of noises... which are wholly inappropriate... he should get some cricket behind him before he is even considered for a Test.

...if we could find a place for a match fit Vaughan (4595 Test Runs - 15 Test hundreds at 42.94) it would only strength our chances in the Ashes...

All true ff. However the first Test starts on 23rd November. Vaughan has not yet declared himself fit.
The fifth Test starts on the 2nd January.

Vaughan is not going to be match fit by then.

He may have played some Australian club matches, but I don't think he should play in the series. I know he's a hard, hard, north(ern basxx)countryman. But he will not be in worthwhile "nick".

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Ernest

I think England are going into this series with a very weak top batting order.

I think it is the third or fourth series in a row that England have gone into with a very weak batting order.

Fletcher has taken massive risks which have largely come off because of the paucity of talent in the opposition England have been playing. And I don't mean the opposition has been bad. I mean they've generally been missing bowlers. Actually the West Indians were bad.

Until Flintoff realises that you do not need to reach each batting milestone with a massively impressive straight six and when you're batting with a colleague who has just smashed three fours in an over, it is not necessary to hit four in the next; until Flintoff works this out, I will not be wholly happy with him being the lynchpin of the team at number six (or five in this series!!!).

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he's there, but currently the England top order with him at five(!) does look alarmingly suspect.

Another reason for dropping Collingwood and playing a classier batsman instead. Who was that now? Shah?, Joyce?, Key?, Geoff Boycott's mum?

[Paoli]

Don't know if it's been said already, but David Lloyd on an Aussie radio phone in this morning said that Trescothick won't play for England again.

Is Vaughan really that needed? Maybe his captaincy skills are, but no reason why he can't call the shots from the dressing room. Batting wise take it or leave it, tho I will agree, he can punish when in form...but he's anything but in form currently.