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Old 11-03-2006, 11:25 AM
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Angry Crufts is Evil

So, this weekend sees the BBC covering Crufts, presented by half-man-half-horse, Terry-Nutkins-wannabe Ben Fogle (why the long face, Ben?). And there are reports of the latest gadget to help train dogs in obedience - the electric-shock collar (Note, the Crufts-loving BBC didn't put this item on any of their TV news bulletins).

Now, I've nothing against people who train their dogs. In my family, we have had many dogs over the years, and my Dad has taken many of them to shows, competing in the obedience and agility classes. But I'm appalled that some trainers, supposedly 'dog lovers', are resorting to cruelty in trying to train their dogs more efficiently. My Dad actually saw one trainer at a show, a man who is very well known and has, I think, won classes at Crufts, taking his dog behind a car and giving it a good leathering.

Of course, Crufts is not inherently 'evil' - that is just my sensationalist title to get people reading. But there are certain heartless and immoral characters who get the show a bad name and spoil the reputations of many kind and caring dog lovers.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:28 AM in reply to Mongoose's post "Crufts is Evil"
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The desire to succeed is obviously a greater need than loving their dog. It's a very sad thing to see but it really is no surprise to me that it happens.
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Old 13-03-2006, 02:00 PM in reply to Vrock's post starting "The desire to succeed is obviously a..."
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It depends when such a device is used. I've been looking for a dog recently and spoke to all sorts of people so I can see many views on this. If its to get a dog to prance round the NEC - theres no need at all in my eyes. but there are alot who are happy to keep the dogs happy its as much for their own finincial gain - and I reckon breeders and people who show dogs (often one and the same) fit this catagory. On the other hand, I heard a story last week where one dog, despite long and expesive proffessional treatment, kept attacking bikes and bike riders, and it was only a matter of time before someone got hurt. The collar you mention was used once, and not been used since as it did the trick from the off.
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Old 13-03-2006, 08:16 PM in reply to Mongoose's post "Crufts is Evil"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose
So, this weekend sees the BBC covering Crufts, presented by half-man-half-horse, Terry-Nutkins-wannabe Ben Fogle (why the long face, Ben?).
Does seem odd that then are happy to give air-time to Crufts, but don't have time in their busy schedules for live Cricket - and so don't bother bidding for it!!
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Old 13-03-2006, 09:48 PM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Does seem odd that then are happy to..."
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Crufts is hardly on the same audience scale as the cricket so the cost to get the rights are extremely low. Clearly there are many dog lovers who will wish to view Crufts and the Beeb want to take advantage of the low cost to gain maximum audience.
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Old 18-03-2006, 10:20 AM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Does seem odd that then are happy to..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose
So, this weekend sees the BBC covering Crufts, presented by half-man-half-horse, Terry-Nutkins-wannabe Ben Fogle (why the long face, Ben?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanflinger
Does seem odd that then are happy to give air-time to Crufts, but don't have time in their busy schedules for live Cricket - and so don't bother bidding for it!!
Does Ben Fogle know anything about cricket? He seems to be on every TV show on the BBC these days - maybe his lack of cricket knowledge is the reason the BBC don't bid
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Old 18-03-2006, 10:55 AM in reply to Mongoose's post starting "Does Ben Fogle know anything about..."
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Mongoose claims Crufts is evil. I want to also point out to people the amount of horses dying at the Cheltenham festival these past few days. No less than NINE horses in four days have perished, mostly due to falls. It really does raise the question of how humane this is? Horses are bred and from a young age are pushed and pushed for their whole lives to win as many races as possible, and what for? The answer is surely not for the good of horse-kind, it can't be the best of times for the horses. In fact, it is for money, money for the owners, money for the punters. I suspect in many cases that poor-performing horses are not really looked after, it seems that only the successful, money-making horses are the ones really loved by their owners.

I just can't understand why horses die because people push them and push them to run as hard as they can and jump over fences. Best Mate, an amazingly beautiful horse (probably thanks to the owners I admit), was 'injured' for a while and then brought back only to suffer a fatal heart attack. I may be a cynic, but was this heart attack due to fierce preparations for the horse to return? I really can't understand what the animals get out of competitive horse racing. There are many people out there who have a horse and give them a much less stressful and hectic live (no hard riding day-in-day-out, no hard exercise, very little stressful travel).

The Jockey club are quite rightly investigating the deaths, here is a BBC report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ng/4815804.stm

I think some real investigation is needed, only a fool would believe that every single horse at this festival has had a great live relative to what a horse could achieve. The fact that a person is sitting on them always indicates some amount of 'breaking' of the horse has gone underway at some point in its life.

What do others think?
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Old 18-03-2006, 11:08 AM in reply to Lemming's post starting "Mongoose claims Crufts is evil. I want..."
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Horses don't want to run around a soggy track for miles and miles, jumping over high fences. I'm sure they'd prefer being petted by a group of small, awe-struck school-children, receiving the odd sugar lump of handful of straw to eat, then going in to stud with a bunch of mares.

If horses had calendars, they'd be marked with 'red' for 'danger' around March-April, with the big meetings like Cheltenham and the Grand National taking place when the ground is usually soft and heavy going. I've little sympathy for horsey people. No-one asks the horses what they want to do, and I imagine to train a top level racehorse causes the animal at least a certain amount of physical suffering. I remember Martin Pipe being investigated for his treatment of his horses. I'm convinced it's cruel.
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Old 18-03-2006, 11:28 AM in reply to Mongoose's post starting "Horses don't want to run around a soggy..."
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Actually in Australia Jumps races have very nearly come to an end. They're rarely raced anymore. I'm a Horse Racing fan anyway, but I guess when it gets to the stage of 45 degree heat or terribly wet conditions, horses should be spared racing.
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