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Old 30-12-2006, 05:33 AM
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Saddam Hussien executed

Former Iraqi president has been hanged today at about 6 a.m. Iraq time.
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Old 30-12-2006, 07:55 AM in reply to Karthik's post "Saddam Hussien executed"
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good!!!

i wouldve fed him into an industrial meat grinder myself.. toes first
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Old 30-12-2006, 09:41 AM in reply to Mr Hutt's post starting "good!!! i wouldve fed him into an..."
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No surprise it was inevitable.

You just fear for our troops as there are bound to be revenge attacks by Saddam's supporters in the coming weeks.
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Old 30-12-2006, 10:12 AM in reply to greg's post starting "No surprise it was inevitable. You..."
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Dead men tell no tales.

I guess we won't be seeing on trial who collaborated, armed, funded, ideologically supported and aided him on all the other atrocities he "allegedly" committed during the 80s.

Doesn't surprise me.
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Old 30-12-2006, 10:15 AM in reply to greg's post starting "No surprise it was inevitable. You..."
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Attempting to leave aside the war and related issues, and concentrate on Saddam himself, this is quite a sobering day. Here was an evil man, bent on totalitarian rule over his own subjects and killing those in opposition whilst repeatedly threatening the outside world in deed as much as in word. I don't support the death penalty, I have never believed as part of my faith that I or any other man should condemn a fellow man or woman to death, but it has happened now. Saddam leaves a huge legacy, a painful one for Iraq and the Middle East, after imposing himself as a major presence in geopolitics for a long time.

The vitally important thing now is for the Iraqi people and the international community to work together to ensure this type of leader does not emerge in Iraq again. It could well happen and will if people remain divided, but I hope there are enough people pulling together to avoid it. Certainly today is a landmark in the Middle East, but the future is still very uncertain and that is why I say it is a sobering day.
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Old 30-12-2006, 10:46 AM in reply to Collyisamackem's post starting "Attempting to leave aside the war and..."
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Well said Colly but I don't think, with due respect, that anyone can really talk about the issue and leave all related issues aside. Everything is connected.

Iraq did not go to sleep and then wake up with Saddam as its leader.

He was put in place there by outside governments who REALLY have power.

He was maintained in power by them and aided through his worst excesses by them.

Saddam only became a problem when he decided he would act in opposition to their express wishes. (Pinochet never did so he died a ripe old age). Then they sanctioned Iraq and then bombed it (Does anyone forget Shock and Awe?). That took care of millions of people. Most innocent.

Not one of those people will have to answer for their crimes back then and their crimes now.
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Old 30-12-2006, 11:14 AM in reply to Ninjaman's post starting "Well said Colly but I don't think, with..."
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What irks me is folk not giving the guy credit for the things he did well: he genuinely was a moderniser... and up to the point when he invaded Kuwait (having been given reason to believe that he'd have the unspoken blessing of the US) the country (hardly the easiest to control) was (for the vast majority of the population) looking in a better position than it is now!

Sure, he treated the Kurds at least as badly as everyone else has treated the Kurds.. and many, many others suffered... but he's surely not a patch on Mugabe.... and prior to the invasion of Kuwait... I suspect Iraq would have been a better place for most ordinary Iraqis to live than many, many other countries are now (and I'd include in that list some with elected leaders).
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Old 30-12-2006, 12:05 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "What irks me is folk not giving the guy..."
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He got his day court, as far as I could see it was a cut and dried case, certainly gassing thousands of kurds, regardless of who supplied the stuff. At least he did get his day in court, ceausescu was put up against a wall quick sharp.

As long as we can get the cheap oil we are promised I'd split the country back up to its component parts, and we can all go home. That said I know alot of the region isnt keen on that idea.
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Old 30-12-2006, 12:31 PM in reply to greg's post starting "No surprise it was inevitable. You..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg
No surprise it was inevitable. You just fear for our troops as there are bound to be revenge attacks by Saddam's supporters in the coming weeks.
Here's a break down of the casualties of this illegal war since it begun in 2003

UK armed forces=126
US armed forced=2,991
All other allied forces=123
US civilians (including former special forces soldiers to drivers, cooks, mechanics, plumbers, translators, electricians and laundry workers and other support personnel)=647
Non-Iraqi civilians (excluding US civilians and including journalists, media support workers, and aid workers)=201
Iraqi civilians= Greater then 655,000

I can understand your concern for your troops Greg, I can understand that any one who opposed the war will have immense frustration over the loss of life of men and women of their armed forces! But one must remember that the total of number of innocent civilians killed in this illegal war (both Iraqi and non-Iraqi) is far far more then the total number of armed forces casualties suffered by any of the allies!

It is a sad enough a thought that a man like Saddam who killed so many of his own and others for no other reason then his defiance ever lived on this planet, but even sadder that so many further innocent lives had to be taken to get the man accountable for his appalling crimes.

My heart just sighs when I think of this exuberant price humanity has payed to the get rid of tyrant that Saddam was. And now, today, when finally, after so much sacrifice of human life and property, that tyrant no longer exists, and is finally been got rid of, the self-proclaimed saviors of the world are now debating if the man should have been executed or not! What irony!

No sane person could have ever supported Saddam's philosophies or have justified his actions, but such is the erroneous manner in which America and their allies' have handled the matter of Saddam's toppling, that today, around the world, people and governments will debate on justification of his execution when it really should have been a no-brainer. This in it self is something of ironic triumph for Saddam and his supporters.

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the hypocrisy of the Human Rights Associations who are opposed to Saddam's execution. Where were they when that same Saddam was killing hundreds of thousands of innocents civilians of his own country and beyond? Where were they when the allied forces were raging a war that was also responsible for killing several hundred thousand more innocent civilians? Sleeping?

How anyone can argue that a man responsible for so much bloodshed and injustice should have been punished with anything less then death penalty is beyond me. In fact, I'd go as far as to suggest that to argue such is an insult to the families of those who suffered under his regime.

Imagine telling some one who lost a family member because of Saddam, that you oppose his execution. What would you say? That Saddam's life is more important than that of his or her deceased family member's and therefore he should live on, so that those poor old family members can be reminded of his tyranny every time they see him? Do they not deserve justice too?

The death penalty but may be harsh punishment, it may even seem inhumane and cruel, but for people like Saddam, who never did anything in their life time to uphold human rights, it is the just they punishment they deserve, and society needs in order to set in example for everyone to see what ultimately happens to those who regard them selves above the law.

So even though I feel very sad for the immense sacrifice we have had to pay to get rid of him, and especially more so, when we could have got rid of him, without such sacrifice, if only wasn't for the selfish, hidden agendas of some of the worlds leading nations today, I cannot say, despite that, that I oppose his execution. The man deserved no mercy.
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Old 30-12-2006, 03:15 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "What irks me is folk not giving the guy..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
What irks me is folk not giving the guy credit for the things he did well: he genuinely was a moderniser... and up to the point when he invaded Kuwait (having been given reason to believe that he'd have the unspoken blessing of the US)).
Exactly. They knocked him off nice and quick before he could spill the beans did'nt they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
the country (hardly the easiest to control) was (for the vast majority of the population) looking in a better position than it is now!.
Strong economy, low unemployment, first class education, world class health system (free too) Iraq was outdoing the U.S and the U.K in the latter two was'nt he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
Sure, he treated the Kurds at least as badly as everyone else has treated the Kurds.. and many, many others suffered... but he's surely not a patch on Mugabe.).
Yes one must wonder how the U.S/U.K governments would react in the face of an armed uprising. They would'nt use gas, but it would be just as violent i suspect. Something along the lines of the Waco massacre in the U.S. Was anyone executed for that by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
and prior to the invasion of Kuwait... I suspect Iraq would have been a better place for most ordinary Iraqis to live than many, many other countries are now (and I'd include in that list some with elected leaders).
Yes the mass murder our goverments have participated in is shameful. I am convinced we are the bad guys now. Hussein was a bad guy no doubt, but our goverments have slaughtered far more than Saddam ever did.

In two years time, Bush will be relaxing on his Texas ranch, Blair will be living in luxury somewhere. But what will be the lot of the people they "liberated"
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