The Rugby Thread

[Zainub]

Well, I'm not exactly a very close follower of the game, but I suppose other people are, so here's a thread you can use to discuss it.

ps: England I presume are world champs, aren't they? But why have they been losing a lot of late, I've just read they lost to Ireland in the six nations, and that if I'm correct their 3rd staright defeat ...what's gone wrong?

[Rachael]

The first thing to note is that this is not the same England side that won the last world cup: a handful of key players have retired, a coach has moved on and there have been injury problems with other key figures. That said... the second thing to note is that the England side that won the world cup was not actally that good and didn't really deserve that title - the only reason they reached the final was the most diabolical conditions for the semi final against the French (a far superior side at the time) and in all honesty the only reason they got anywhere was front row strength and a freaky kicker.

For those of us who think Rugby is first ad foremost a game of spreading the ball wide and running with it that English side was a pretty sorry affair - one sometimes wondered why they even bothered fielding anyone on the wing.

On a more positive note.. the Welsh have been playing some stunningly expansive stuff of late.. and the French played a quite electrifyingly open game in yesterday's contest: I had to go out before the end but what I did see was the most inspiring sporting spectacle I've seen in a long time - great stuff!

[Leafy Seadragon]

Originally Posted by Rachael

the second thing to note is that the England side that won the world cup was not actally that good and didn't really deserve that title

Rachael, even as an Aussie I think you were a bit harsh on the English team (did I really say that?). The English side that won the world cup were the best team in the world for the year or so leading into the finals. Sure they often played stuff that was utterly miserble to watch, but they played to their strengths and beat teams. They also sometimes did open up and throw the ball around (at least until the coach told them off at half-time or after the game was already won). Holding together a team of aging players to support a sublime kicking skill long enough to win the world cup was an achievement that I don't think deserves to be belittled. Yes, they got some luck and relied on a freakish player (Argentina & football world cup sound familiar?) but I think that it is fair to say that they 'deserved' the title. Having said that, thank god many have passed on to the sporting afterlife (commentary & car sales?) and the world can return to watching half decent rugby...

[Rachael]

Hmmm.. didn't an Aussie newspaper put Wilkinson's boot on the front page with the headline "is that all you've got"? Not true, of course, as you also needed thugs up front who were canny enough to induce penalties.. but if your kicker can clock up 3 points almost every time from anywhere in the opposition half and even from his own half (and welly it miles upfield whenever the play threatens to be outside kicking range) it's pretty hard to screw up.

I'd agree that England were just as deserving of the title as the Aussies would have been... but let's not forget that neither would have been in the dream final: the French were by some margin the best team of the tournament and the other guys to watch were the all-blacks.

Did you watch that semi final? That wasn't a rugby field it was a mud bath. Conditions were so evil that it's surprising anyone actually completeed a single pass. Every phase of play became a lottery. The French, to their credit, came out and attempted to play rugby: they made handling errors in conditions that were impossible but they tried. What did the English do? Ruck, Maul and hoof. Yuck.

I'm prepared to acknowledge that the English side were decent at what they did: Hill was, by all accounts, magnificent.. and the big guys were brutal up front... but was it rugby? Not in my book. I've never resented a "home" victory so much as I did that one: it was a sad, sad day for the sport. The only English bright spot in the tournament for me was Catt.. a guy ostracised as outdated by the management but gloriously different when released :-)

On a brighter note.. did you see the Welsh play France yesterday: it was sensational :-)

[Paoli]

Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, has lost any credibility it ever had with England's garbage performances over the last 12 months. When they lose to Italy (lets hope it happens), I reckon a full clean up is needed...getting rid of anyone in the World Cup team bar Wilko and Robinson (maybe Greenwood and Thompson).

My rugby loyalties are split between Australia and Italy.....with soft spots for England, Ireland and South Africa

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

My rugby loyalties are split between Australia and Italy.....with soft spots for England, Ireland and South Africa

What? No French? Surely everyone who loves rugby loves the French lot first: even as a kid I was told "now this is how rugby SHOULD be played. No different now: even when they suck they still try open attrative rugby. Usually suicidal but hey.. it's great to watch :-)

I've a big soft spot for the Welsh though: good to see them on the up.

[Zainub]

I've got a soft spot for England. Although I must admit I'm really very new to following Rugby. Still kind of discovering the game.

[Rachael]

I followed rugby more in the late 70s and early 80s... and gradually lost all enthusiasm as Rob Andrew's crew killed the game with nothing but brutal defending and endless kicking. My enthusiasm returned somewhat when the southern hemisphere teams came and stomped all over the northen hemisphere lot whilst also playing an expansive game... and then waned when ****hole Johnson and Johhny ******* Wilkinson worked out even more sophisticated ways of killing the sport.

Irish wins last year soon brought a bit of renewed enthusiasm though... and who could resist this new Welsh crew :-)

[Zainub]

That's all very interesting Rachael. I started following the sport last year, when England won the world cup.

[Teatime FatCat]

Watch it, learn about it and enjoy it Zainub. It's a fascinating game, still played with a modicum of honour and a little respect for the rules and the referee. I go and see games live occasionally and have taken my girlfriend and my 9 year old daughter. Premiership grounds are full of young women, families and even tiny kids playing with miniature balls around their parents feet. At many grounds you can stand right on the side of the pitch and can see, hear and smell your international heroes, and on many occasions have a bit of friendly banter with them as they jog past. Friendly banter is also the order of the day with oppostion fans before, during and after the games. It's tremendous.

All standards and performances are cyclical and all teams in world rugby have at times resorted to negative tactics, but this is no different to Arsenals' 0-0 draws of the 80's and men's tennis being dominated by big servers and no rallies.

Zainub, never mind that English national rugby is on the slide, go and see a premiership game and have a really enjoyable afternoon out!