UK General election

[Beny]

the courage shown by our respective leaders.

Ohh thats a bit much Seamer... They sat back and pressed the button.

before they won in landslides and took absolute power in both houses of parliment ( Congess & senate in US, Reps & senate in Aus).

Says something about political apathy in the respective nations. Actually Apathy might not be the right word... How about philisophical and Historical ignorance... Really it's not quite right to say that these were elections based on Iraq. Lots of variations.

I don't know about Blairs domestic performance but his foriegn policy has been spot on.

But nobody likes him? I thought that was a major indicator in Forign policy???

Although the predominately left-wing media

See... Polarised...

House of Lords is an archaic system and should be abolished for the good of the nation.

Out of interest how would the English do such a thing?

So my Pommie commrades... if not Labour then who?

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

I've become very disillusioned in recent years about UK politics. It seems now the governemnt take little responsibilty for **** ups and take all the plaudits when things go right, but in reality have little to do with either. Take the current Rover debacle. 6000 employee (lets not forget small associated suppliers) looking at the dole. Where is support coming from ? China. OK in many respects, Rover is a private entity and if it aint making money perhaps it should close down. But we're always looking OUTWARD. OK what about the war. Not sure how keen blair was to go in, but with a helpful push from george, off we went. So now we do what the US want rather than public opinion. The plot thickens though, when it came out that Saddam didnt have WMD and was no moreof a threat to this country than my mum, Colon powell was very quick to blame UK intelligence. And we let them. Cheers George.

I think of what ****es me off about this country, spiralling insurenace costs due to our new "imported" compensation culture, schools not allowing kids to win races at school sports day(everyone nowdays), road rage, starbucks, the fact that people say garbage and daipers instead of rubbish and nappies all drives me ****ing mental. Is it teddy blairs fault ? God knows but he, along with howard and kennedy are power less to stop it.

[Ernest]

Maybe Rich WOMD was not as great an IMMEDIATE threat as was first thought, but Sadam was working on developing them, he had used them before on Iran, and against the Kirds.

So what do we do, wait until he aquired the tech know how to deliver them to Europe, and the UK?.that would be leaving the problems for our children to sort out.

Originally Posted by RBLC

I think of what ****es me off about this country, spiralling insurenace costs due to our new "imported" compensation culture,

Yes I have been a victim of that, I had a small bump, being I had my daughter in the car, I took the rap.paid my £75 excess and thought that was the end of it.
12 month later I was sue'd for him having severe back injuries, the bump was about 5mph, he hit me after he braked on one of those silly little roundabouts, anyway his mate had an injured neck as well, fair enough had he been in the car, there was only the driver.
You can be sue'd today for anything, or by anyone who has half a chance.

Originally Posted by RBLC

schools not allowing kids to win races at school sports day

This comes from the raft of EC regulations that are changing the way we live our daily lives.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

I've become very disillusioned in recent years about UK politics.

God knows but he (Blair), along with Howard and Kennedy are powerless to stop it.

Well that is part of the trouble with the speed of communication as it is nowadays. There is nothing we are ever going to do about that short of cutting out the power supply, which of course would be a very good way of solving the environmentally unfriendly nature of the politics of (I was going to say: the western, but actually it's) the whole world.

IT was interesting that Colon Powell (I like that) was allowed to blame British intelligence for the lack of Iraqi WMDs, it does make one wonder exactly who did "off" David Kelly. And let's face it, somebody did do for him... he didn't do it himself. The medical records have been "covered up" and fortunately that piece of "free" information will not actually be in the public domain even in fifty years time.

But this "disillusionment" in British politics is surely Tony Blair's greatest asset. By bringing the two main parties so close in policies, he has created a situation where nobody particularly wants to vote, because there is no real point. It is not now so much that we had seventeen years of frightful Tory rule, it is we probably need a change but we don't really care enough to do anything about it, because afterall, what can we do anyway? Aren't both parties the same?

I don't think they are. Probably one is a bunch of liars and the other is a bunch of cheats... apart from that - you decide.

I suppose the thing currently in favour for the Tories is, they are a smaller bunch!!! But is it really preferable to have a really big bunch of liars or cheats?

I'm not sure. Perhaps we should vote for the party that appears to tell the most truth.

That would be the Green Party then. Or the Grumpy Old party. How much is a deposit?

The Hon. Sir Oliver Smith-Smythe-Smith Bus-Stop F'Tang Ole Biscuit-Barrel (Grumpy Old party)

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

I think of what ****es me off about this country, schools not allowing kids to win races at school sports day (everyone nowdays),

Well that harks back to Shirley Williams (Labour or SDP) who in 1979 (I think - may have been earlier) suggested non-competitive sport in schools.

And that's all part of the ridiculous nonsense that gives practically every child who takes a GCSE a pass mark. And the ones at the top of the pool get A***.

When I were a lad - and I understand this is going back a distance, every sixteen year old in school took GSEs or CSEs and the marks went accordingly - from the 100% that took the exam, 40% failed and everybody else passed with grades from A to C. The top most mark you could get was A. And that was damned bloody good, and actually meant something.

Nowadays it strikes me that kids come out of fifth form (I don't know what it's called now - another horrid Americanisation) with vast strings of GCSEs and the Geography students don't know what Germany's chief mineral is or where Madagascar is or what is the capital of El Salvador, and the French students don't know how many monkey's Madame Lavisse has, or what the past participle of "etre" is or indeed what a past participle is, and the Spanish students think the capital of Spain is Malaga or Barcelona and "burro" means butter, and the maths students don't know what Triganometry or Differential Calculus or Quadratic Equations are for, and the English Language students can't like speak like English like.
And in some schools they don't have to.

Still if everybody passes everything, and nobody ever loses on the sporting field despite being excessively obese and not actually being able to put one foot in front of another on a running track, then at least nobody has the remotest idea of what an inferiority complex might be.

And that's the main thing isn't it Tony?

The Hon. Sir Oliver Smith-Smythe-Smith Bus-Stop F'Tang Ole Biscuit-Barrel (Grumpy Old party)

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

I've become very disillusioned in recent years about UK politics. It seems now the governemnt take little responsibilty for **** ups and take all the plaudits when things go right, but in reality have little to do with either.

Yep, me too, RBLC - it makes me sad, though, becuase I remember being excited about the election when Labour first got in, thinking things would improve, and now I see that things are in as much of a mess as ever!! You hear the same old nonscence now as with the Conservatives. What I hate most is how they will still try and blame the last Tory government for things that are going wrong now - like the school dinner thing, it's 'oh, the tories started that' as though they couldn't have stopped it if they had wanted to at some point before an odd-ball t.v chef made a programme about it!

I feel like I have no one to vote for at the forthcoming election:

Labour - Untrustworthy beggers
Tories - Hell would have to freeze over before I voted for that bunch of xenophobies
Lib Dem - wishy-washy do-gooders

What a wonderful choice!

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Thankyou Oliver and Kirsty, I feel somewhat more vindicated. The last few local/euro elections I chose not to vote. Political commentators, my mother and many others think I'm a fool, but not using my vote I'm telling blair and the rest, I don't trust you and I dont feel representented by any of you. When the turnout drops to under 40% in a general election (I wouldnt rule it out this time round) politions of the various parties must finally work out they've got to find a different way of doing things. Like listening for a start.

By the way, I'm not "ignorant" (I studied A level politics for a start), I'm not lazy just disenfranchised. If a 20 something realively intellegent white man form a decent 2.4 kids background can get that way, what about the rest ?

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

When the turnout drops to under 40% in a general election (I wouldnt rule it out this time round) politions of the various parties must finally work out they've got to find a different way of doing things. Like listening for a start.

Trouble is when the turn-out drops below 40% the party in power is quids in.

Fewer voters means less likelihood of change, nowadays. Thirty years ago it was perceived that a low turn-out meant the Conservatives were more likely to win, because Labour voters couldn't afford cars and were less likely to make it to the polling station! Not now Archie!

The low turn-out was something that particularly amused me about the devalution debate.

In Wales around 50% of the population turned up to the polls to vote on whether Wales should be have their own parliament. Of that 50%, 51% voted for their own administration with 49% voting against.
Aha, the beauty of democracy.

So that is 25.5 % of Wales voted for their own parliament and 24.5% voted against it while 50% abstained either through indifference or because the points weren't put across clearly enough for them to make any reasonable decision.

I call that a huge waste of money, a stupid mis-use of time,

And a very frightening small scale view of what will happen on May 5th.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Trouble is when the turn-out drops below 40% the party in power is quids in.

You raise a good point here, and I'm inclined to agree. The other worrying thing about a low turnout is that in some areas it allows parties like the BNP the chance to garner a higher than normal percentage of the votes, as they have a hardcore of supporters who will turn out, while the uninspired and disillusioned sit at home feeling depressed by the whole thing.

I want to vote, I want to feel that there is a political party out there that can represent me, but I refuse to vote for 'the lesser of two evils' as my mum puts it.

[Occasional Fan]

Seamer - there is something in what you say about the Lords: the system is archaic, no argument about that, and all logical modern constitutional debate would probably say that reform to an elected Upper House is overdue. However, it's not quite that clear cut. These doddering old ladies and gentlemen, hardly any of whom now govern us by an accident of birth since all bar 92 of the hereditary peers were booted out of the House at the last stage of reform a couple of years back, actually provide top quality debate - far higher quality that you will ever hear in the elected House of Commons - and have shown themselves on more than one occasion to be the guardians of our civil liberties. Without them, our elected Home Secretary's proposals to give himself the power to lock anyone up whom he suspected of terrorist related activity would have become law. No need to prove that an offence had been committed; no need to confront the suspect with details of the offence of which he was suspected; no need to present any evidence to any court, nor to the suspect, nor to the suspect's legal representatives, who, incidentally, could only be appointed from a list approved by - you guessed it - the Home Secretary. Habeas corpus out the window; tear up the rights which generations have fought to gain and retain ever since Magna Carta in 1215. In short, an elected Upper House, if it had a similar composition to the Commons - as, for example is presently the case in Australia and the US - would have nodded through powers for the Home Secretary which Balthazar Johannes Vorster enjoyed in apartheid South Africa.

Long live the House of Lords, is my view - and you wouldn't have heard that from me say, five or ten years ago.