Who is the most influential person to have walked this earth??

[Paoli]

Yes, I was about to say that...He was sent to war but was allowed off for priestly duties...

The Da Vinci Code....I'm reading it at the moment....One of the best books I've ever read...Dan Brown's no idiot!!!

[Occasional Fan]

Well, if Dan Brown is an idiot, he certainly got rich from it. Can't say I enjoyed his book though.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Beny

Well what else would he have said? 'Bow down to me I am you're saviour' ... Man these guy's are getting predictable!

LOL. He gets described as "God's Rotweiler" on the front page of today's Torygraph. Delightful, eh. All those damn Cardinals to choose from and they couldn't find one with a nice, Spaniel like temperament.

Originally Posted by Beny

As for Opus dei... Dan Brown is an idiot.

I don't know about "an idiot".. but he certainly is either {a} gulliable, or {b} knowingly promoting a hoax for his own ends.

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Rachael

He gets described as "God's Rotweiler" on the front page of today's Torygraph.

The Sun has him as "Papa Ratzi".

[Ernest]

Raelchel, you have got to understand that the late Pope John Paul was a liberal, maybe to liberal for the cardinals to stomache, but they should remember according to the Roman Catholic faith, the Pope in infallible, so therefor he must have been right.

However the cardinals have elected a hard line Pope, who I doubt will even talk about some of the reforms that was dear to Pope John Paul.
Gone I bet are all Catholic thoughts on merging even loosely with the Anglican church, divorce and abortion that was never really on woth Pope John Paul, will not even ger discussed.

The catholic church have not learnrd the lesson of the last 3 papal elections, the first 2 died very soon after election, they had no choice but to elect a younger Pope, but they have reverted back to type, Pope Agustin XV6 is 78 years old.

A step back to the reallity of the Catholic Faith, I wonder.

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by Rachael

LOL. He gets described as "God's Rotweiler" on the front page of today's Torygraph. Delightful, eh. All those damn Cardinals to choose from and they couldn't find one with a nice, Spaniel like temperament.

What's the torygraph????

And, Ratzinger's about as right wing as they get in the catholic church.....Did we smell something??? No, I thought we smelt change with someone like Arinze, Pell or Metamonzi but same old with Ratzinger....

Oh well, at 78 most people are enjoyinhg the final few years of their life...Ratzinger's starting one at 78...

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Raelchel, you have got to understand that the late Pope John Paul was a liberal... However the cardinals have elected a hard line Pope

You've got the wrong end of the stick there Ernest: the last guy was the most huthoritarian, hard line pope imaginable.. single handedly responsible for pretty much undoing all the progressive, liberal reforms that appeared to be getting started before he ascended (Second Vatican Council and all that), coming down like a student of Stalin on all those who didn't toe his conservative line and appointing endless rabidly conservative Cardinals.

This Rotweiler may actually be a nastier piece of work... but he's moving to secure the last Pope's consevative legacy not to undo anything!

The only ray of light in all this is the guy's age: one suspects the few remaining liberals (mostly South American) opposed him.. but the more easy going lot might well have been determined to get an ******** with a short life expectancy (in the hope that the climate after his death favours a more moderate choice).

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

Moving along, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who I honestly thought would be the next pope has been elected the next pope. I got this thought when I saw him bless Pope John Paul II's tomb....Obviously someone like that would be held in high stead by the college of cardinals....He chose the name Benedict XVI, as I think has been documented.


God Bless you, Pope Benedict XVI

That is all totally irrelevant. We are talking about influence on people's lives. We are not talking about making the world better, changing it....we are talking about influence. Religious figures (leaders of religions) have more direct influence on people than anyone who historical who really doesn't touch people's ordinary lives at all.

As for the likes of Hitler etc, they had absolutely no influence of the many many people that lived before 1920 on this Earth. You only have to look at the number of people nowadays that follow the teachings of Islam or Christianity (and one billion different people will follow them in 100 years) to see there really is only one answer.

There is a huge difference between indirect influence and direct influence. And as for hatred and terrorism....if that isn't influence then I really do not know what is.

[Ernest]

No Rachael with respect you have it wrong here, pope john Paul the 11, was an international Pope, he was loved whereever he went by Roman Catholics and none Roman Cathoplics alike, he drew crowds to rival that of our very own Queen Elizabeth 11.

Whay may have given you the impression that he was authoritarian, is the fact that the Roman Catholic Church in very conservative, and so it would appear that anyone to do with Roman catholasism, would also be hard line.
Look at his attempts to forge some sort of unity with the Anglican Church, I would doubt that in the time of the last long enough serving Pope, who was Pope Pius X11, he would never have gone into such negotiations.
Also he was a much travelled Pope, I think he went to over 115 different countries making well over 150 visits, to see the plight of the people first hand.
He was hailed in the US by all denominations, unthinkable with any other pope.
He supported the solidarity movement in Poland, and his speech which contained don't crawl on your bellies,as good as spelled the ned of Polish communism.
The Catholic church John Paul II inherited in 1978 was in shambles. Reforms begun by the Vatican Council II shook the church to its foundation, and the tumult within the church could be compared to the turmoil in the outer world during the 1960s' era of peace, love and protests over the war in Vietnam.

He did much to bring down communism, hw as even shot by a Bulgarian. he also critisised the right wing govenments of the right wing Latin american governments.

I thnk I know why you think he was the most hard line Pope ever, because His inflexibility on issues with international ramifications -- birth control in Africa, for example -- has drawn strong criticism.
Also his stand on abortion, and Euthanasia, did not go down well at all.
John Paul II embarked on nothing less than a restoration of the church, one grounded in its conservative tradition, and his almost dictatorial manner has not always played well.
But this was not the fault of the Pope, was it?,he was just following the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, who find it hard to deviate from the 10 commandments 2000 years ago, and of course the first pope was St Peter, and ***** said, Simon thou are Peter, and upon this rock you will build my church, the rock being the support ***** had put together in his 33 years on Earth.
And the teachings of the church, not the Pope, are responsable for the shaping of the Roman Catholic church, he was conservative only is so much as he tried to put the Church back on track, it is the world that has changed, not the late Pope.
He was a popular Pope, if Rachael you think he was Authoritarian, then what will this New pope be like Pope Benedict X16th be like, hardly known as a remormer, but as a hard liner and concerbative.
And it has to be remembered that the former Pope was ill with Parkinsonism since 1990 or so, and has been seriosly ill since arround 2000, so he will have had his advisers.

What I am saying is the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church and it's teachings, it would be a truly remarkable Pope that relied on the fact that he was infalible, and rewrote catholisism.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

Really, what has anybody religious done to try to bridge gaps between others....There is still hatred between Catholics and Prodistants in Ireland and Northern Ireland, their are still terrorist attacks in the name of whichever God it may be and there are still people up high in other religions who believe that their religion is the best and the only one.

Paoli, I challange you to go and find me one faith that teaches hatred. The leaders of all major faiths today preach above all good will. Just because their teachings (and of those before them) are misinterpreted and wrongly portrayed doesn't mean religion and religious people only breed contempt amongst people of different backgrounds and nations. If you ask me, whatever is happening today around the world is not because of religion, but rather because a lack of understanding of religion and people's distance from it. In terms of influence, religion still dictates the priorities and thought patterns of billions of people around the world. I'm sure many of us do or do not do certain things because we feel that God or whatever higher authourity we beleive in doesn't wish us to do so...now if you don't call that influence, I don't know what influence means then.

PS: I did a google search on influential people, and amongst many other things I also came across this

Michael H. Hart had worked for NASA and was a professor of astronomy and physics at a college in Maryland, USA. He holds degrees in physics, astronomy, and law and is the author of the best selling book, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, which has been translated into a number of languages, including Chinese. In addition, he has written and published widely in various technical fields. He also co-edited the book, Extra-Terrestrials, Where Are They? and is the author of A View from the Year 3000. In his book, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History his top 10 most influential people (ranked in order from most influential to less influential) are as follows:

1 Muhammad
2 Isaac Newton
3 J-esus C-hrist
4 Buddha
5 Confucius
6 St. Paul
7 Ts'ai Lun
8 Johann Gutenberg
9 Christopher Columbus
10 Albert Einstein

Too view the complete list click here