Who is the most influential person to have walked this earth??

[Occasional Fan]

Yes, Minister - wonderful. Being re-run on BBC7 now, and available for a week at a time on audio on demand if you've a mind for it.

Life of Brian - the only Python that ever really did it for me. All the rest of their stuff had my schoolmates laughing for weeks, but it really left me cold.

Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? - passed me by, I'm afraid.

"It was late summer 1939. Father and I were sitting in the garden, watching mother dig an air-raid shelter ...". Now, sorry, I am laughing as I type, and could go on for a while without reference to notes - but I won't!

[Rachael]

Coen brothers... based on Homer's Odyssey.. but essentialy (as one review neatly puts it) "a period piece road movie about a trio of ex-cons who wend their way around the state of Mississippi during the Great Depression". Also has the best movie soundtack I've ever heard with stunning contributions from Ralph Stanley, Gillian Welch, Alison Krauss and Emmylou Harris (the "Down from the Mountain" album launched the biggest bluegrass revival imaginable).

Check out http://www.filmfestivals.com/cannes_...al/brother.htm

[Beny]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi 45516

The present form of Bible may have been written by individuals, but its original (unmanipulated ) version was most certainly not written by people (human beings I mean) as you think. As far as I know, both the Quran as well as the orginial version of the Bible (and some other holy scriptures) compile the revelations of God to His Prophets , it is exteremely inaccurate hence forth to suggest that these books were "written" by followers of their respective faiths. They were written by God. And that at least with refrence to the Quran that is an unquestionable fact, beyond any of any kind what so ever.

No Zanuib, I take it you mean that you 'think' the above.You cannot prove beyond a doubt that this is the case. As far as I'm concerned these 'prophets', are no more reliable than any old guy off the street. Much of what they say can only be understood through reading them in their contextual form.

I assure you, through study of the bible, that these things were written by Humans. Humans with adgendas and their own theological interpretations. Much of it is also hearsay rather than hard fact. Often the writer says things which we know are untrue.

[Occasional Fan]

Within the Christian faith, we can "get away" with questioning the Bible in this way (and RBLC has not, as far as I understand it, condemned himself to eternal damnation with his irreverent comments above any more than you have with your questioning post, Beny). My very limited understanding of the Muslim faith, however, is that it is an article of the faith itself that the Quran is the Word of God: no room for a practising Muslim to doubt that, as I understand. With respect, Beny, and with apologies to Zainub for using her as an example, it is her faith itself which makes her so certain that the Quran was written by God: indeed, my understanding is that Zainub's faith requires such conviction on her part.

I don't want to offend anyone with this observation: if I am coming close, Beny and Zainub, do please let me know.

[Zainub]

I'm definately not offended OF. Your understanding is 100% accurate. In fact I want to verify what you have just said. As I said before the question of doubting the authenticity of the Quran simply doesn't arise, anyone who reads it can very welll find that out him/her self, it can't be anything but the word of God. There are many verses in the Quran which testify to that fact. And it is also, as OF said, one of the essentials of faith to have that belief.According to the Quranic definition (2:285), the concept of Al-Iman (Belief/Faith) comprises belief in the following: 1- God 2- His Angels 3- His Scripture 4- His messengers. Belief in all four items is A MUST requirement for a person to be a believer.

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

All this "lost in translation" business has got me to thnking.What if we have thme all wrong ?

Thall shall not covert thy neighbours KNIFE
This could ring true as i noticed at a dinner party that next door had some wonderful steak knives. Also good news becuase mrs next door is certainly worth a seeing to.

Thy shall not KNEEL
Words to live by with my knees

You shall have no other MODS before Mike
Pretty eery that.

Remember BLACK SABBATH day and keep it holy
Close, the Osbournes is on a Sunday.

See Beny, you're right!

I saw a documentary years ago that suggested that it is now common acceptance that Moses did not part the 'Red' sea, but in fact a 'sea of reeds'. This was a translation mistake apparently.

Makes quite a difference I would say.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

RBLC has not, as far as I understand it, condemned himself to eternal damnation with his irreverent comments

I fear I'm already schedualed for damnation, and this probably hasnt helped (but I havent seen any thunderbolts yet. I'm banking everything on the "God forgives all" ethos.

Seriously though, I dont think the catholic faith should evolve. Its up to the masses whether they want to be good catholics or bad catholics, not move the moral goalposts.

[King Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Occasional Fan

Within the Christian faith, we can "get away" with questioning the Bible in this way (and RBLC has not, as far as I understand it, condemned himself to eternal damnation with his irreverent comments above any more than you have with your questioning post, Beny). My very limited understanding of the Muslim faith, however, is that it is an article of the faith itself that the Quran is the Word of God: no room for a practising Muslim to doubt that, as I understand. With respect, Beny, and with apologies to Zainub for using her as an example, it is her faith itself which makes her so certain that the Quran was written by God: indeed, my understanding is that Zainub's faith requires such conviction on her part.

Originally Posted by Beny

No Zanuib, I take it you mean that you 'think' the above.You cannot prove beyond a doubt that this is the case. As far as I'm concerned these 'prophets', are no more reliable than any old guy off the street. Much of what they say can only be understood through reading them in their contextual form.

OF and Beny,

Islam lays a lot of importance on the use of reason and logic. Hence, when a Muslim believes something, it isn't based on blind faith. It can, in all major cases, be concretely proven.

The following points show that the Quran couldn't have been the work of a mere human being:

1) No contradictions: A Divine text cannot have any contradictions in it whatsoever. How can God say one thing and then tell the people something totally different? If one reads the Quran carefully, and analyses it thoroughly, you will come to understand that there are no contradictions in it.

Humans beings of course make many mistakes. It is nearly impossible for a mere mortal to write something as huge as the Quran and make no errors. Take a look at any work of fiction, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc. The authors, even after lots of proof reading by editors et al have made errors. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is impossible for a human being to pen down an error free book, but this point combined with the others clearly shows that a man could not have written the Quran by himself.

2) Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was unlettered: The Quran, Muslims believe, was revealed to Muhammad (PBUH). Muhammad himself was an unlettered man. He could not read and neither could he write. How could such a man have written a book like the Quran?

3) Scientific miracles: How could a man living 1400 years ago in the deserts of Arabia have known that the mountains stabilise the earth? How could he have known the life started from water? How could he have known that the earth was created by the explosion of a star? Although the Quran is not a book of science (It is a book for guidance), there are numerous scientific statements which even science has come to agree with. What science has just told us recently was written in the Quran 1400 years ago. How could an unlettered man have done this?

I hope you have taken on offence from this. If I did seem too raw and direct at times, I offer my apologies. My point was simply that a Muslim does not believe blindly. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself once said, "Allah (God) has not created anything better than reason, or anything more perfect or more beautiful than reason."

Hence the use of reason and logic is very important in Islam.

[Occasional Fan]

Thanks, KA. No offence taken, you can be sure of that.

[Seamer]

I would'nt say that Churchill was the most influential man in history, but his actions had the most decisive effect on the course of history. His desire for war against Germany in WWII lost England their empire, lost Europe their pre-eminance in world affairs and consigning Euporean nations to secondary power status, allowing the USA and Soviet Russia to become superpowers and the 50 years of cold war that ensued. Had he made peace with Germany in 1940, England would have kept their empire, Germany would have kept theirs, Russia would not have become a super-power, with the result that the three world powers would have been western nations - England, USA and Germany. Once again, how different things would have been had England and Germany had not fought each other in WWII.