Britain and the Euro: Your views

[King Aragorn]

As we all well know, Labour have for the third time in a row won a majority in the House of Commons. The issue of the Euro also came slightly under discussion during the discussions last night as parties like BNP did get a little backing in some areas. This made me wonder what you all think about Britain joining other Eurozone countries.

So I'd like you to share with us if you would like Britain to join the Eurozone economies and also explain, why are think upon such lines.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Blair will shuffle and sit on the fence over this until his **** is full of splinters. We've been "about to" join europe in a big way since 1992 and the ERM (I think) fiasco. We might get a referendum after france has made up its mind, but I wont hold my breath.

Personally I cant see it making much of a difference really. Rather than having little GBP I'll have little euros in my pocket. Your average daily mail reader will throw there arms up about giving away our identity and sovereignty etc, like we're the only country in europe thats got any. Dutch didnt mind neither did the germans. The pro europe lot will tell you it will make britain a better bet for business, which is equally rubbish, as any manufacturing base is off to china and most of the call centres are off to india.

You'd be as well talking to goatman (as and when he reappears) as he lives in holland and OF has he's in prague who I believe use the euro.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Personally I cant see it making much of a difference really.

It will make a difference in that interest rates will no longer be available as a means of controlling the British Economy.. and that's a pretty significant change. On the other hand.. Ken Clarke was one of the most successful chancellors this country has seen in decades and knows a thing or two about managing the British economy.. and as he doesn't seem unduly worried I'm certainly not going to be.

Either option strikes me perfectly viable and the ranters who suggest one or other course would be "catastrophic" just strike me as silly.

I've time for SOME of the opponents of the Euro.. as I think a reasoned case can be made... but sadly the anti-Euro campaign seems to attract the worst elements in British politics in the way carrion attracts flies (and to make matters worse the lunatic fringe seem destined to hogg the media spotlight each and every time the matter is raised).

Alas, the same nuts seem to be jumping up and down about the constitution now: this government gets a document so skewed towards the British outlook that continetal europhiles despair.. and the headcases STILL see it as a French conspiracy

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Dutch didn't mind, neither did the Germans.

Not sure that's true, at least in the case of Germany. But it isn't a matter for discussion any more - both accept nowadays that their currency is the Euro and there's no way back to Marks or Guilders.

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Prague who I believe use the euro.

Not yet. Expectation is that we will adopt the Euro towards the end of the decade, but it wouldn't surprise me if that slips to 2013-15 or so, as our economy really isn't comparable to those of the Eurozone yet in terms of development after 45 years of central planning.

As for the UK: well, I find it disappointing that the UK has again consigned itself to the second row on European matters. If the Euro had been adopted at the time that 12 other countries adopted it, bugs would now be ironing themselves out - it's business which drives the economy, not the Chancellor, and business is pretty adaptable - and we would be focusing on other matters of concern (the EU Constitutional treaty, for example). That's not to say that I would necessarily advocate rushing to join the Euro now; merely that if the UK did join tomorrow it wouldn't bother me. Blair and Howard in effect have both admitted - either explicitly or tacitly - that this is at least as much a political issue as an economic one, with Howard ruling out ever joining the Euro (see the Tory manifesto for the last General Election) because he thinks that is a vote winner and Blair effectively ruling it out at least for the present parliament in a speech delivered during the recent campaign - also because he saw that as a vote winner.

Daftest idea was when Labour decided that this should be a referendum issue, thereby abrogating all responsibility for the decision to the group which is least competent to make the decision, namely the voters. As I said above, business runs the economy - but big business has no votes. Much more sensible to have the Confederation of British Industry work with the Treasury, Department of Trade and Industry (or whatever has replaced this given that, as I understand, it may have been abolished yesterday), Bank of England and European Central Bank to determine the way forward and then tell the population what is going to happen. Include Parliament in the discussions as they eventually have to make the decision anyway, but basically I would say that those are the guys who should make the decision - which is what we pay them for after all.

(Just as an aside, as a matter of principle I am against referendums as a tool of government: I elect a government every four or five years and expect them to get on and govern until such time as I decide to elect someone else. I'm a bit busy trying to run a business!)

[Paoli]

I'm not too sure about that, to be honest I didn't really follow the election at all. But I saw one former MP kick Tony Blair's **** inside out at a speech. What's his name?

[Richard Jenkins]

The euro is a good idea even if it is inflationary in France


There are many links between our communities and we have created a real friendship between our communities, one of which we should be justly proud.
. We have to ensure that it’s a living, productive organisation, interested in others the young and the old, all of our mutual communities, open and involved.

.

We must have some common projects which take time to build and produce fruit. Europe is a serious business, which we continue to discover and appreciate in a spirit of joy and curiosity; it is this then that we share together. The European dream is one of friendship, partnership and joined visions and goals. Let us continue on this path together, remembering our differences and celebrating them together. It was only sixty years ago that Europe was in turmoil, destroyed by war and hatred. Let us then build a Europe for our children and grandchildren , one in which their dreams can be assured. It is not a question of national interests which will propel us forward together, rather a team effort and a joined responsibility which will assure those very dreams.

[Ernest]

I think Tony Blair will try and take the UK deeper and deeper into "Old Europe".
The English people don't want this, neither do they want the Euro, this has been peoved time and time again with tests of public opinion, and discission with friends Kin ect.
So why did Michael Howard never make this at least one election issue, we may have had a Conservative government had he done so, because the Libs Dems with their long standing lets have a united Europe type of thing, would not have held the Consevatives back.

We here scaremongers saying the UK will be irrelevent on it's own, marginalised on the edge of Europe.

Just like we are now, we are on the edge of Europe, but we will alway be signifcant with a population of some 60 million, I here take of possible trade wars, being we run a huge trade deficate with the rest of Europe, how could we lose.

One example a trade war with France, who would lose the most, France of course, millions would come out of work if the UK did not buy their goods,a lot more than we would, so we are not vunerable in a trade war, we are not a powerful expoting nation like we should be, that's the reason.

We are reducing out defence capabilities like all the other European nations, why?, I think plans are there already to intigrate European armed forces to have a large European Army the equall of the US.

So lets say we become part of Europe on full, with the anto USA sentiment in Europe-France and Germany, there could well be a stand off starting with trade, and maybe worse-because a united europe would become a superpower.

These same anti American feelings could lead to war, oh yes Europe as history shows are good at this sort of thing, so it will be a blow for world peace if we keep well out of Europe.

The idea of Europe began with the Common Market to have countries trading insread of fighting each other, but it has grown out of that, the UK was better of when it belonged to free tade partnership with Scandinavian coutries et al.and was a global trading nation.

There will be a referendam I hope on Europe sooner than later, and if as I expect the anti's would win, we could well have another General Election within two years, if Tony Blair dares call for a referendam.

England is a free nation while it has its surrouned by water, and enough dynamite stocks to blow up that bloody tunnel, and free from major attack, while we hold the ultimate weapon as a ""detarent"".

[Rachael]

Ernest, right now Europe is on the brink of becoming so incredibly "British" that those who had previously been taking it in other directions are in a state of collective despair. For the first time ever the great tide of opinion swinging behind a British reform agenda. What you so misleadingly call "Old Europe" is all but dead.

For the first time since the mid 19th C British influence and leadership is on the increase... Anglo-saxon administrative practices and agendas are driving out more mediteranean versions... and the prospects of Europe being a worthwhile club are actually on the increase.

British leadership is crucial to this process.. and many of the older European countries and virtually all of the newly accessioned countries are depending on Britain taking that lead. Do you really think politicians should respond to this moment by attending to the pathetic populist scaremongering, romantic nationalism and reactionary isolationism of the likes of Bill Cash and UKIP?

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Ernest

So why did Michael Howard never make this at least one election issue, we may have had a Conservative government had he done so.

Well, maybe, though I doubt it. In any event, Ern, although you have broadened the scope a bit, this thread was initially about the Euro, not all the other aspects of EU membership. I agree with you that the UK's political parties could - in fact, in my view should - make much more noise about Europe than they presently do. It is up to them to educate people on what EU membership means for us. By maintaining their silence, they leave the field open for a deeply Eurosceptic/Euro-hostile press to set the agenda. Irresponsible on the part of our elected leaders, I would say.

To get back to the restricted subject of the Euro and the Tories, I don't think, with respect, that you have a point. The Tory manifesto was quite plain to the point of being dogmatic: "A Conservative government will not join the Euro". Once you've said that, there's nothing much else to add, is there?

[Maranello]

The Tories did not want to make their "Europhobia" an election issue, since rightly, that would have: {a} turned off millions of decent, centrist voters up and down the country, especially in the Cities, voters the Tories needed to attract, and {b} have brought this issue to the forefront of the agenda, thus increasing profile for the UKIP. After all, if Europe is the main issue, why vote for the half-baked Europhobia of the Tories when you can have the fully baked Euro-hatred of the UKIP?