ASHES - Care to put your money where your mouth is

[Zainub]

It's all good appreciating his passion, I certain do too. He's the happist cricket in world cricket. Always , always trying and smiling. But he's still averaging 30 in the series with the ball, and over 35 (last time I checked) in test cricket. If he's to become the best bowler in the world those averages will have to come down to at least the high 20s.

[Paoli]

Over 35? You must be avin' a larf. Before the series they were stagnant on 31.66 for quite some time, and yes, he has bowled the odd dodgy innings but has been our standout paceman; excluding Pigeon of course in one test.

[Zainub]

Ok, then, I was wrong about that, but 31 isn't good enough either. Got to bring it down to 25. That's a mark of a quality seamer.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Zainub

Of coarse they could also do with a bit more, but give up the complaing about umpires , please.

Well it must be said that you had a fair bit to say about umpires after the recent Pakistan tour to Aus Zainub, so i would say you would be one of the last people to offer advice on this subject.
I was merely pointing out a fact that is widely accepted by English and Australian media and commentators alike. This forum is here for members to state opinions and i stated mine.Again, had the decisions evened out, the Aussies would have won that one despite playing well below their best and England playing above themselves. Deep down, even English fans know that the umpires helped win that game for them and thus, the win is a hollow one in my opinion. Nothing will convince me otherwise.

[Kirsty Harris]

Originally Posted by Seamer

Kirsty,
(7) In the event of a draw, all participants donate 5 pounds, save me, who will donate 5 pounds for each participant

o.k, fair enough just wanted to be sure!!!

[Zainub]

I didn't have a problem with umpires, I like to think I never do. I did though have a problem with the Aussies try to intimidate the umpires - I had a problem with their appealing style, which I still do.

I understand you are now convinced on a certain opinion, so I shall leave it at that. I will though ask you for your opinions the next time Australia win against some one thanks to some dodgy umpiring.

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by Zainub

31 isn't good enough either. Got to bring it down to 25. That's a mark of a quality seamer.

Not strictly true. Look at Freddie who is arguably the best paceman in the world at the moment. He averages about 32. Simon Jones is another one who averages High 20's but is a very good bowler. Harmison avearages 28 as well.

Sub 25 is the mark of a great bowler; a fete only currently held by Murali, McGrath, Pollock and Warne.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

Sub 25 is the mark of a great bowler; a fete only currently held by Murali, McGrath, Pollock and Warne.

Warne's average is actually just over 25, but still quite good for a spinner. Another current bowler with an average below 25 (in both Tests and ODIs) is Shoaib Akhtar.

[Paoli]

Sorry, missed him. Yet in my mind there is no doubt that Shoaib is a great bowler.

Probably sub 23 is more of a great bowler...Yet, players with averages above 25 are still quality; Warne, Jones, Harmison, Flintoff, Nel and Kaneria, but to name a few.

[Leafy Seadragon]

So a bowler is great purely on whether his average is less than 23? Please...Average is but one aspect of how good a bowler is/was. What about context? No of matches? Longevity? Support or lack thereof? Conditions? To discount many great bowlers (such as Lillee and Warne) because their average exceeds some nominal number seems pretty silly to me.

Nah, you're obviously right. Lillee was just a man with a mo' and Warne is pretty mediocre. After all, what's he done? Got a few lucky wickets

Still, we're drifting significantly off topic...