Bachelor of...

[Leafy Seadragon]

I'm a believer that, other than providing you with the basic training and getting you in the door of your career, degrees are generally overrated in their value. There's several staff in my group with Ph.Ds and another finishing one off, but easily the best of the lot has simply an honours degree. Neither he nor I have had any limits in our professions through not having doctorates. The problem translates much more to recognition from the general public than from those in the field. Because the field I deal with is scientific/technical, the media are generally keen to deal with someone who sounds credible and admittedly 'Dr' at the front of your name does that. In general I've found that, provided you've got the basic training needed for whatever you're doing, people within your profession will judge you on your abilities rather than your degrees.

As a principle, I've generally found that the best students are rarely the best professionals (although there are definitely exceptions). I can only talk from my experience working with professionals in the Oz, English, French and Chinese systems, but this seems to me to be a reflection of the limited preparation that academia still provides for the bulk of its students, who don't go on to a life in academia. This is despite all the claims that we are hearing from Universities that they are preparing people more for the 'real world'.

Note to self: step down off soapbox...

[Paoli]

Gee, Beny, those degrees should be reachable.

Happen to know what Bachelor of Commerce score is?

[Lemming]

I'm hopefully just three weeks away from getting my MSci Theoretical Physics and Applied Mathematics degree, that's if I pass my Waves exam tomorrow.

Then I should be starting my Ph.D in Theoretical Physics later this year (If I get my degree)

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Leafy Seadragon

I'm a believer that, other than providing you with the basic training and getting you in the door of your career, degrees are generally overrated in their value. There's several staff in my group with Ph.Ds and another finishing one off, but easily the best of the lot has simply an honours degree. Neither he nor I have had any limits in our professions through not having doctorates...As a principle, I've generally found that the best students are rarely the best professionals (although there are definitely exceptions). I can only talk from my experience working with professionals in the Oz, English, French and Chinese systems, but this seems to me to be a reflection of the limited preparation that academia still provides for the bulk of its students, who don't go on to a life in academia. This is despite all the claims that we are hearing from Universities that they are preparing people more for the 'real world'.

Leafy Seadragon, I too am "in science" if you like and I feel my degree has prepared me only for further study, so I agree with you. I have hardly done anything in my degree to gain transferrable skills applicable in real-life or industry and see alot of people who may not be that gifted a student but would obviously thrive in a real job working with real people, they just have what it takes. Also in my experience, the most gifted students are not always "real" people anyway and most are loners who cannot work with others successfully, it is usually those who go on to further study.

I say this but I think that if you want to be a specialist in some area (usually random area!), the Ph.D route is the only way to go and the quickest way to learn.

[Leafy Seadragon]

Lemming, firstly best of luck in your waves exam. I agree to an extent that a PhD offers a path to a career as a specialist, but particularly in science, this is usually in the academic or laboratory sense. The bigger badder world offers opportunities to become as specialised (and as good) as you want, but the skillsets are often different to those developed through a purely academic route.

In terms of specific knowledge about any one thing, academic research is usually the way to go, often through universities, although our group as part of a State Government agency often has the opportunities to undertake our own research work. In terms of specialising in applying high level knowledge to the real world to interpret implications and relating this to the broader community, industry, politicians and the media, a strong academic background is possibly no better (or even worse) than a broader mix.

As I mentioned in an earlier post we've got a collection of PhD and BSc graduates. The two widely recognised as national experts don't have PhD's (both started and tossed them in early), yet are still better than just about anyone else in their field. I did my original honours in physics, which despite being virtually forgotten now (it has been 20 odd years), has been useful in providing a basic understanding of how the world works (apparently you need a bit more than just love). Combined with a few years of working in gold mines, English pubs and youth hostels, a stint with an English accountancy software house and a consultancy firm, a further stint with the British civil service in policy, an MSc and consultancy work in a variety of different countries and I'm now heading up a scientific team totally unrelated to physics (okay, so nothing's totally unrelated to physics). That and the similarly convoluted background of several team members, resulting in extremely good scientists, leads me to think uni should be about learning the basics and enjoying yourself (unless you want to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer) in which case enjoy yourselves now before its too late

[Teatime FatCat]

Originally Posted by Lemming

I'm hopefully just three weeks away from getting my MSci Theoretical Physics and Applied Mathematics degree, that's if I pass my Waves exam tomorrow.

Then I should be starting my Ph.D in Theoretical Physics later this year (If I get my degree)

I have no idea what any of the above means.

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

I have no idea what any of the above means.

Do you think I do? (Don't answer that, I need to maintain my self-esteem!!)

[Paoli]

Lets not laugh...In a few years a bank teller will need a degree...

[Alison]

I have a BA and an MA in Theology.

[Statto]

Ive got my GCSEs, am in the middle of my ASs now (first year A-Level) and hope to go on to do Maths at Cambridge.