Police kill Attempted Suicide Bomber

[Oliver]

Ahh though to be fair, the poor chaps that followed him onto the number two bus from Tulse Hill (lovely journey that) were merely plain-clothes detectives, whereas waiting at (or near) Stockwell station were several police marksmen.

They're the psychotic types (well they are in The Bill, Hill Street Blues and just about any television police series) out for blood and ready to spill it.

So it was a case of: "He's getting off the bus."
"He's going into the station."
"SO2 move in."
"OK plod, we'll take it from here."
"We have the technology, we'll sort him out."

That American series, with the chap who plays Grant Mitchell better than Grant Mitchell does, has a lot to answer for. He's a nasty piece of work.

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Oliver

I just wonder why they didn't read him his rights, having completely over-powered him. Perhaps they could've removed his jacket, or patted it down. I mean if you have rendered somebody completely immobile then he is unlikely to be able to trigger any detonators. Surely they could have asked questions first.

As I've said before, simply over-powering is not enough. Any device he may have been carrying does not neccessarily have to be triggered by pulling a massive lever, requiring two of his arms. It could be a simply button anywhere in his body or simply touching two fingers together. A potential suicide bomber is not an idiot, they may well plan a way to trigger their device in a difficult situation, such as been overpowered by police. Unfortunately the police cannot ask questions quickly enough when suicide bombers are a threat.

I'm not saying you are like this Oliver, but it amazes me how people blame the police and this country's intelligence for not stopping the deaths of 60 Londoners, but then think the police go too far trying to stop what they belive to be a suicide attack.

I'll repeat myself again, with a quite simply point. It's a terrible tragedy that this guy died, but no-one has a right to run away from police. In fact you should be locked up for even doing it.

Originally Posted by Oliver

Presumably they already knew that their command of Portuguese was not up to scratch.

Perhaps the police should have geography lessons.
"Repeat after me: Brazil is in South America, Brazil is in South America."

I'm a bit confused here. Brazil is in South America, but does use Portugese as it's first, official native language.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Lemming

I'm a bit confused here. Brazil is in South America, but does use Portugese as it's first, official native language.

The native language would be some sort of Inca/Aztec/Toltec conglomeration - and probably somewhat rarer than Cornish is in Cornwall... The Portuguese and the officialdom came later.

I was making two points there Lemming.

The first was that the police probably knew who they were tailing from Tulse Hill on the number two bus and down into Stockwell Station. They probably knew that perhaps the best way of getting his attention was to speak to him in his language, which was Portuguese, which presumably none of the officers spoke.

The second point was merely, that Brazil isn't very close to Afghanistan or Iraq or Pakistan, or where ever you would have Moslem suicide bombers "trained."

A small point there, but Brazil is a very religious country... as are most of those (if not all) in South America.
The rough percentage would be 80% Roman Catholic.

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Oliver

The first was that the police probably knew who they were tailing from Tulse Hill on the number two bus and down into Stockwell Station. They probably knew that perhaps the best way of getting his attention was to speak to him in his language, which was Portuguese, which presumably none of the officers spoke.

I don't agree with this point. I'm not a big fan of learning foriegn languages, to communicate with people, unless I'm in their own country. I know we have a multi-religious and multi-cultural society, but I think the onus should be on foreigners entering our country to learn English rather than the other way around. It's not the polices' fault if he spoke poor English.

Originally Posted by Oliver

... The second point was merely, that Brazil isn't very close to Afghanistan or Iraq or Pakistan, or where ever you would have Moslem suicide bombers "trained."...

Suicide bombers have no identity. They don't have to be Afghan, Iraqi or Pakistani. They could look like anything, white, black, Brazilian etc., all that is required is that they have extreme views on the way we live our lives. It is these sorts of views, once again I'm not pointing fingers at you Oliver, which creates stereotypes of such nationalities and hence racial problems in society. We don't need everybody to assume that a suicide bomber has to be from such areas of the world, or even that it may only be Muslim's that are a threat. Also there has been talk of training camps in this country, they don't have to be trained in your quoted areas of Middle-east/Asia!

Originally Posted by Oliver

A small point there, but Brazil is a very religious country... as are most of those (if not all) in South America.

The rough percentage would be 80% Roman Catholic.

That may be true. So are you saying it's safe to say that no Brazilian could ever be a suicide bomber? Hence the police can assume all Brazilian-looking people, white people, black people, American-looking people are not going to contribute to terrorism?

I believe it's safer to assume terrorism could appear anywhere, and be caused from anyone. I for one, when I'm out and about in Birmingham (where I live) or in London (if I need to go there, I rarely go anyway) am not going to be worried about just Asian people. I'm going to look out for suspictious behaviour from everybody. The last thing we need to come from these attacks are gaps in society as we segregate Asians as potential suicide bombers.

[Beny]

Lemming,

They could have handcuffed the guy. If you're going to shoot somebody then you want to make sure they are really the bad guys and if there is the ability to detain rather than kill then the police officers should have chosen the former. There is such a thing as 'overkill' (excuse the pun).

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Beny

Lemming,

They could have handcuffed the guy...

What makes you think suicide bombers need full arm movement in order detonate their bombs? They are not idiots, even if they do blow themselves up in an attempt to kill as many people as they can. I would imagine a small, even remote-controlled, button would suffice to detonate their weapon, it could be in their mouth or anywhere. Handcuffs cannot stop that! That is exactly the reason why police are now allowed to "shoot to kill", killing is the only way to ensure as much as possible that they cannot "press the button". Neither a body shot nor a handcuffs is good enough to ensure they cannot detonate themselves.

If someone has strapped explosives to themselves and has the button to detonate in their hand, what use are handcuffs?

Your point is good. There is obviously no need to kill every criminal when they can be handcuffed. But I would prefer someone dead without even having questins asked before someone getting handcuffed and then blowing up all the innocent people around them.

It's a terrible run of events leading to the guy being killed. But this country is under threat from forces with no name or face, policing such terrorism is difficult. Unfortunately there is no time to ask questions of suspected suicide bombers (I believe this guy was), not complying with armed police when they are running onto a train (let's not forget that recent suicide attack took place ono public transport). There is just no time, if you hesitate the fact is many innocent people die!

This guy's death was a terrible incident. BUT what we really do not need, at such terrible times, in this country is people applying pressure on the police to have to check before using the required action to disable the suicide bombers which are a huge risk at the moment. It only takes a flick of a switch for them to do alot of damage, we need to be behind the authorities here, not criticise them, terrorists use that to thier advantage, that is what they want!

[Lemming]

Originally Posted by Oliver

...I think you credit their bomb-making skills with more technology than is likely...

I think I've no idea who the hell they are, or what they are likely to be able to do! I think you treat them like idiots, when nobody knows when and where the next attack is going to happen, or even who is going to do it.

I've seen what they can do with aeroplanes, i'm not going to take anything for granted. There are people, rich people, who could potentially fund massive terrorist operations. I personally think the most recent, failed attacks last week, were copy-cats and not too good at it. I'm not going to assume they can't make explosives, it's not too difficult for Palestinians or Iraqis to kill people over and over again, why is it different here!

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by BBC

The man was held after being shot with a Taser stun gun and has been taken to London for questioning.

Aha, that's what I'm talking about.

[Beny]

mind you even that could do some damage if you shoot somebody with it 5 times in the head...

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Beny

mind you even that could do some damage if you shoot somebody with it 5 times in the head...

Keep up Beny old chap

Actually it was seven times in the head, and once in the shoulder. (I'm guessing that one was a mistake.)