Flintoff for Sports personality of the year

[greg]

Winning the European order of Merit is far easier to do now than when Monty last won it because most of the best Europeans play in America.If he had won a major i would vote for him but not because he won another merit title.If you say him for the main award then Notts CCC should win the team award as winning the county championship was a fantastic achievement.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Why Wimbledon? I'd rather see him win the French.... or emulate what Henman did in winning the Paris Masters and sustaining a top 10 ranking.... or get talked about as the "king of clay": Lendl became one of the great players of the modern era without winning at Wimbledon.... and Ivanisevic won Wimbledon without ever becoming a great player!

Most great players have won Wimbledon, the fact that Henman has never won it is down to bottle, he was a nobody in World Tennis, we don't produce tennis player in the UK, Virginia wade was not a natural, she won it with grit, the very thing Henman does not have.

Originally Posted by Rachael

I'd consider Colin Montgomery for the BBC award for this year: winning the European order of merit this year has been a sensational effort.

Again he needs to win big events like the US Masters, followed by the US open, and the British open, then he would be a rival for Flintoff.

[Rachael]

Henman's a far greater sportsman than Flintoff, Ernest: he's one of the true greats of his generation... and lacks nothing in bottle! This is a player who has done well on pretty much all surfaces... and who has defeated pretty much everyone. He's the best volleyer of his generation... and easily a rival for the likes of Edberg (a great) but playing a style of tennis that was better rewarded in Edberg's day.

Henman's Paris Master's triumph was a greater achievement than certain Grand Slam triumphs would have been: both the players he beat and the way he defeated them should ensure that triumph is never forgotten - players have had far easier rides to a Wimbledon crown.

Henman's Wimbledon record also eclipses that of virtually any other rival bar Sampras: a player whose mastery on the grass surpasses that of any player in history.

The best cricketing analogy for Henman would perhaps be Bedser.. or Laker: both craftsmen of the highest callibre who would, one suspects, struggle to tower over the modern game.. not because they would not be the best in the world at what they do.. but because the odds would now be so seriously stacked against them. On covered pitches so manicured for batting... they'd struggle (as even Underwood did).

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

I'd argue then, that he ISNT the great you reco him to be then Rach, its about winning not playing in the style of a bygone age. By your own admission, Freddie is a robot, constructed by the england mmangement who had a big (overweight to start with !) load of talent that they crafted into something resembling the best all rounder in the game since botham. But freddie had to carry through those instructions. (still cant help offering simple chances when batting abroad ) I therefore argue tiger tim is incapable of a) carrying out instructions or b) finding a coach to get the best out of him. Besides BBC personality is about who won what in the previous 12 months, not who won what tournament in frnace nobody has heard of years ago.

England, against the odds and to the surprise of everyone bar ernest, kirsty and the tabloids, beat the best in the world, henman hasnt. We can and have argued till the cows come home about decisions, injuries, form etc etc but we won the ashes, a series that captured the nation. So you have to pick a player. Others could be KP for a match saving knock, tresco for consisant scores, vaughan for captaincy but it was always going t obe the big fella for key wickets and botham-esque iresponsible batting.

[Vrock]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

Others could be KP for a match saving knock

What about his catches, he has vastly improved and hasn't dropped one as far as I'm aware since the Ashes

[Rachael]

Henman's win-loss record stands up to scrutiny: the Tennis ranking aren't as quirky as cricket ratings (because you come up against the same handful of top players time and again) and you don't get to where Henman did in the ratings without being VERY special.

In cricketing terms.. Henman's not worthy of comparison with the Tendulkar-Lara-Ponting or McGrath-Warne-Murali class... but he's a cut above the Hayden-Sehwag-Tresco class and above the Ntini-Akhtar-Harmison class. He's perhaps most akin to Kumble: a superb player... with craft and guile and skills to eclipse almost all others.. and unrivalled in terms of aquitting himself well pretty much everywhere.. but always eclipsed by someone, somewhere.

Look at it this way: Henman's better (and more successful) at tennis than Owen, Beckham, Scholes, and Ferdinand have ever been at soccer!

[Colourful Chaddi]

I think this thread should be moved to the members louge because it talks about other sports personalities not just English cricket.

I think Andrew Flintoff should win it, he deserves it, who would have imagined that England would win this years Ashes before the summer, i certainly didn't believe it because of how well the Aussie's were playing. The Ashes victory was achieved with this man's great influence.

I think the youngster award should go to Amir Khan. He beat Mario Kendalan in his last boxing match as an amatuer boxer and you can ask anbody that was no easy feat. He signed a professional contract and started his career in excellent fashion beating both his opponets, even the boxer who comes from my city.

[Ernest]

Rachael do you never get dissapointed when the likes of Tim Henman and Greg Rusedskipromise so much but never win the big ones like wimbledon.
I remember a Wimbledon not long ago when Tim Henman and Greg Rusedski were both tipped to do well at Wimbledon and both did ok and got into the high rankings only to fall way behind again the following year.
Greg Rusedski with his huge serve I would have expected to get to the top, but like all British men for a generation before him let nerves get the better of him.

At least at Golf we manage a champion a generation, like Jacklin and Faldo true champions.

[Rachael]

Rusedski has done far better than he ever should have done: he's a very wooden, one dimensional player, with a poor return of serve and only sporadic confidence in playing up the back of the ball on the backhand. Oh, and he's no great shakes tactically, either. With those factors stacked against him... he's still managed an impressive record... including a Grand Slam final (US Open).

The biggest obstacle to Henman's domination is modern rackets: in terms of classic ability he's got the game to break his opponent's serve far more consistently than virtually any other player can break him.... but he knows he's going to get broken fairly regularly. When MacEnroe played that was a formula for a stack of major finals.... but these days it leaves you vulnerable to any Tom, Dick or Harry blasting down bullets and resorting to hit-and-hope returning.

With so many robots taking advantage of the powerful rackets... that's a lot of potential banana skins: even Sampras struggled against the robots away from the grass...

[Henners]

im glad you all have other interests besides cricket, and on the tennis conversation, henman has been so close so many times, yet he misses out on wimbledon and everything else. resedski can serve a real fast one. but he struggles with his volleys and backhand(my opinion) thats why he has never become really successful..

i think murray doesn't deserve sports personality of the year because he hasn't won anything 'Big'

radcliffe will probably runner up to freddie