New Zealand's Greatest ODI XI

[Aurelius]

I've already done this for England, and since both teams are playing each other at the moment (with emphatic results), I thought I may as well do the same for New Zealand. So, based on a minimum 40 ODIs played:

1. Glenn Turner
2. Nathan Astle
3. Stephen Fleming (c)
4. Martin Crowe
5. Roger Twose
6. Chris Cairns
7. Chris Harris
8. Adam Parore (wk)
9. Richard Hadlee
10. Daniel Vettori
11. Shane Bond

12. Jacob Oram

Just two concievable changes I could see happening. One is Brendon McCullum replacing Parore- in my opinion, he just needs to be more consistent wiht his batting. Getting that average up to 30 would be a good start. The second is Jacob Oram replacing Chris Cairns. Although Chris Harris might be seen to be replaceable, someone to take the pace off the ball during the middle overs is really handy and makes for a balanced bowling attack- he's also a very good finisher. Cairns, on the other hand, is like-for-like with Oram as a batsman, and I think Oram might be a steadier bowler. Again, he just needs to get that batting average up- something he'll have plenty of opportunity to do since he's batting at 6 now.

[Milo]

I'd like to see Greatbatch open up with Turner, but pretty much agree with the rest of it. As I said on the other thread, the keeper has no real obvious choice. I think Ian Smith could be useful with today's short boundaries. He could swing a good bat.

[greg]

Well any New Zealand all time one day side would bat a long way down as they would have Cairns,Harris,Hadlee and Vettori as 4 of the 5 main bowlers.

The only problem could be openers and wicketkeeper.Personally i would go for Greatbach and Turner up top with Smith or McCullum as keeper.

My team would be

Turner
Greatbach
Fleming (c)
Crowe
Astle
Cairns
Harris
Smith (wk)
Hadlee
Vettori
Bond

When you consider that good one day players like Oram and Styris got nowhere near the side it shows that New Zealand have had some top performers over the years.

[sittingduck]

Originally Posted by Aurelius

Just two concievable changes I could see happening. One is Brendon McCullum replacing Parore- in my opinion, he just needs to be more consistent wiht his batting. Getting that average up to 30 would be a good start. The second is Jacob Oram replacing Chris Cairns.

Cairns in his prime was superior in both forms of the game to Oram, Oram still has plenty of time to improve but as of now there's no question.

WK is tricky, I haven't looked at the stats but I don't think Parore's stats were that impressive
The advantage with McCullum is he can bat at the top or bottom of the order with equal(ish) effect. Although we've got more than enough opening options (I wonder how Astle will go at number five, but he has to go in somewhere).
There's a strong argument for including Smith too, I can't really pick between him and McC without looking into it more.

Harris is a must, just look at his 130 in the World Cup qf against Australia in the subcontinent for proof of his batting ability, his bowling was magi and he's probably our best ever point feilder, on par with the likes of Jonty Rhodes.

Strange to see Vettori at number 10 but then you can't put him any higher with the quality allrounders in that lower order.

[Aurelius]

WK is tricky, I haven't looked at the stats but I don't think Parore's stats were that impressive
The advantage with McCullum is he can bat at the top or bottom of the order with equal(ish) effect. Although we've got more than enough opening options (I wonder how Astle will go at number five, but he has to go in somewhere).
There's a strong argument for including Smith too, I can't really pick between him and McC without looking into it more.

I just checked- McCullum averages 26.7, and Smith only averaged 17.3. On top of this, Parore averaged 25.6, and wasn't as fast-scoring as McCullum down the order, so I'll make that adjustment to my team.

Re. Greatbatch- his figures weren't so great, so I think Astle should definitely get in ahead as an opener. As Sittingduck said, Astle really has to get in to the team, so I see the contest as between Greatbatch and Twose, and I think a lot of us forget just how good Twose was, averaging 38 with a SR of 75. So my team is as before, with McCullum taking the gloves instead of Parore.

[sittingduck]

I like that team more.

I just had a glance at the ODI averages for New Zealand, I know lower order players tend to have lower averages but it's surprising how poor the reading is.

Only 11 players have an average of above 30 (minimum 20 innings). For the record they are Turner, Twose, M Crowe, Fulton, Jones, Astle, Taylor, Styris, Fleming, Edgar and Coney, three players from the present team are in that category.

Interestingly Matthew Sinclair comes in at number 15 on the same list with an average of 28.93 at a s/r of 62.

[Milo]

But Smith scored his runs at a run a ball (one of the top five scoring rates in one day history). Coming in at nine (and let's face it, any keeper in this side must bat this low) with fielders on the boundary, he has a very strong claim against those scoring freely in power plays like Mccullum.

[sittingduck]

I'm wavering on Smith v McCullum, maybe there should be a poll. I'm also wondering what the feeling is about swapping out Twose for Andrew Jones?

On a related note Andy and I have been looking at this year's New Zealand A-team selection, so anyone who wants to take part is welcome.

ohh and in breaking news Stephen Flemings retired from tests, effective from the end of the Marchseries against England.

[Aurelius]

Just checked the respective figures for Twose and Jones. Twose averaged 38.8 against Jones' 35. But the real difference for me is in strike rates- Jones' was 57, which even by the standards of his day was slow, while Twose's was a very healthy 75. So that clinches the argument for me.

As for Smith vs. McCullum, there could be a bit of a contest there, although I'm more inclined to stick with McCullum. Unfortunately I don't know how to set up a poll, so if you can tell me how, or can do it yourself, then that would be good.

Sorry to hear about Fleming. Great captain, good sportsman, and really classy batsman. I hope he has the opportunity to score a couple of centuries in the last season to get his tally up a bit.

[sittingduck]

Hmmmmm I'm not sure if the poll function is still available.