mmmmm

[Paoli]

Zainub, Astle is actually pretty close to being the second best bowler in the NZ side at the moment....I wouldn't give the captaincy to Vettori though; too much to do. Fleming is still a tactical genius, just doesn't have a Bond or Cairns up his sleeve in test matches to use it...O'Brien and Martin would be fringe Pura Cup players in Australia, and Tuffey is too indisciplined but probably needs to play....In all seriousness, though, if your gonna take the captaincy off Fleming, give it to an Astle, or pull a cat out of the bag and chuck the responsibility on Hamish Marshall or Brendon McCullum...Not Vettori, preferrably Fleming or Astle.

[Junior_Flem]

I think people are being very harsh on Fleming. It's very hard to captain well when you don't have the players. You could see him set good attacking fields in the ODI's only to have to change them because his bowlers couldn't bowl to them.
Also, NZ had done very well in ODI's for 12-18 months previously, until they played a rampaging Australia.

As far as Test cricket is concerned, yeah, maybe he's a little tired. But then, he must get very frustrated with the lack of NZ's resources. There is only so much you can do as the skipper. You have to have the players.

Having said that, like many others, I question the input of Bracewell. Fleming seemed to do better when he had more of the reigns. Bracewell seems to be too controlling to me.

It would be interesting to see Ponting and Fleming swap positions. Ponting has been getting many plaudits and is, I believe overrated as a captain. He leads from the front and does it well, but he's not so good tactically. The diff is, he has a great team and they win regardless. Would Punter do as well captaining NZ? How would Fleming go with a group of players as talented as the Aussies?

Food for thought..........

[vvvrulz]

Well with a team like that, Ponting doesn't have to do much. Fleming has very limited resources to cope with.

[Junior_Flem]

Precisely. And that is why I think ppl are being harsh on Fleming.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Junior_Flem

Precisely. And that is why I think ppl are being harsh on Fleming.

I tend to believe in that too. With the kind of resources NZ have I don't think any captain in world cricket (let alone in NZ) would be able to do a better or worse job than Fleming has.

[Junior_Flem]

I think Ponting is overrated. My CAT could captain Australia at the moment, and win.
Ponting makes mistakes but Australia just keep winning so no one scrutinises him. Fleming's side is constantly being scrutinised so every little thing he does, right or wrong, is being thoroughly dissected.
As far as his captaincy in the ODI's - he had some key players injured. Oram, Butler, Styris - they would all have made a difference to their bowling. As a fan of his, I watched his captaincy closely and felt he did as much as anyone could do with the players he had and an Australian side that hit top form.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Junior_Flem

I think Ponting is overrated.

Based on his average of 56.50 and his 22 hundreds?

[Beny]

Originally Posted by Pete 43477

Based on his average of 56.50 and his 22 hundreds?

LOL. I always think that Australians take Ponting for granted. When I named him in my all time aussie greats team, a few eyebrows were raised. But I think that in 10 years or so we will begin to understand what a great player he was.

Ponting makes mistakes but Australia just keep winning

Examples?? I don't dispute that, as a captain, Ponting is overatted but as you rightly point out... How can we judge him? We say that anybody could captain Australia at the momment but unfortunetly that is'nt happening and so we have nothing to compare him against.

[Junior_Flem]

I meant as a captain.

[Junior_Flem]

An obvious example from day 1 of the last Test. Fleming was batting, came out after lunch and no McGrath. Why not?
Fleming was able to go on and regain some semblance of form and certainly some confidence. Chances are if McGrath had come on straight after lunch, he would have got Fleming out.