Worst Bowling Action.>

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

You are right Ern, but a good Chinaman will always turn, so non-turning deliveries are few and far between. The way to get an LBW from round the wicket with this kind of bowling is to bowl a few 'fizzers' just outside off stump, that turn in to hit middle and leg, then roll your fingers over the top of one to make it go straight on. Pitch it on off stump, and just short of a length and you are in business. In my level of club cricket, most teammates umpire the games, and you'll never get an lBW as a lefty bowling over the wicket in a million years!!

This has however got me excited. Does anyone know a good description of the leg-spinners grip and bowling action (with pictures) on the web. I could print it off and practise in a mirror! Any help gratefully received.

There was book(cant remember by who or when - mid 90s at a guess) it descibed every aspect of cricket including the various grips different bowlers can use. It had a green cover if thats any help

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Rachael

With regard to the ball "not turning": wrist spinners have never really struck me as a breed with problems getting the ball to turn. Kumble perhaps turns it less than most.. but in principle it's stacks easier for them to get the extreme turn that's so valued today than it is for a finger spinner to do the same.

Well Rachael, this shows the difference between say Giles and Warne, they both turn the ball away from the bat, but Warne is always going to be more effective as an attacking bowler, due to his , being able to turn the ball more, because there aways seems to be a difference.

Originally Posted by Rachael

. my problem is getting the ball to land close enough to the batsman to be considered a delivery!!!

And I think Salisbury and Schofiels had the same problem, or they may have still been in the England team.

Ern

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Ernest

Well Rachael, this shows the difference between say Giles and Warne, they both turn the ball away from the bat, but Warne is always going to be more effective as an attacking bowler, due to his , being able to turn the ball more

You say "they both turn the ball away from the bat".. but in the WI I believe there was at most one batsman in the top 7 for whom that was true. Point is.. depends whether the batsman is a left / right hand bat. With regard to the difference between the two bowlers, though, I'd say turn is just one manifestation of a more fundamental difference.

Warne bowls very slowly.. giving the ball lots of air.. and relies on the combination of turn in the ball and bounce in the pitch to get the ball "spitting" at the batsman... but Giles pushes the ball through at a good pace.. using his height to get a BIT of bounce.. but relying on the wear in the pitch to get any turn.

There's a difference in CLASS between Warne and Giles.. but there's a more fundamental difference in what they are there to do: one is practicing an art designed for the classic Aussie pitches where strokeplaying batsmen are often in the ascendency and wickets have to be "bought"... whereas the other is practicing and art designed for the uncovered English wicket... where bowlers can apply the pressure and runs are hard to come by.

[Ernest]

Rachael, yes I agree over the West Indies team being over endowed with left hand batters, but I was using a Right Hander, as the role,
Attituded towards spin bowling has changed a lot in the last 20 years, I blame this to a large degree to the emergence of the great West Indian and Australian fast bowlers.

Going back a few years, leg spin bowlers in England where used as cannon fodder, to buy wickets,(as you say warne does in Australia), certainly no batsmen feared them.
Put a leggie on now, and he can bamboozle a whole team.

I can remember a match at Headingly a few years ago, some vandals had watered one end of the playing pitch, we where playing Australia, and they where not amused, they wanted to play on another pitch, but could not ger their way.
Upshot was Phil Edmunds came on to bowl, and I swear that ball turned square, I know the conditions where perfect for him, but it shows in the right conditions, a finger spinner can be just as lethal as a leg spin bowler.

I know you cant go back, but I wonder who I would have in my team "warne" or "Bishan Bedi", two completely different bowlers.

For a leg spin bowler though, nothing can be taken away from Warne, I can remember in English conditions, warne Pitching on leg, turn and bounce, unplayable, inevitable catch.

Ern

[Ernest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/h...00/3221141.stm


Teatime,

Originally Posted by Teatime Fatcat

This has however got me excited. Does anyone know a good description of the leg-spinners grip and bowling action (with pictures) on the web. I could print it off and practise in a mirror! Any help gratefully received

Read the above link Teatime, If the accadamy did not select you, I have brought you the accadamy

No need to use your tray now!!!!

Ern

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

, to buy wickets,(as you say warne does in Australia), certainly no batsmen feared them.

Warne buys his wickets... Sorry, he does not buy his wickets. No Bowler with 541 wickets at 25 has "bought" his wickets, unless the definition has changed overnight.

Warne has earned every wicket through guile, genius and supreme unmatched talent, he has spun the ball hard, while being consitently accurate.

For me someone who buys their wickets is someone who gives away a few and get the batsman out more thorugh luck, and maybe over-ambiton. Most bought wicket's will be caught at mid-wicket. If you analysed Warne's wickets most would be caught behind, LBW and Bowled - these are not modes of wicket taking assocaited with buying wickets.

Is this another of Rachael's bizzare twist's on Cricket?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Warne has earned every wicket through guile, genius and supreme unmatched talent, he has spun the ball hard, while being consitently accurate.

Absolutely. The guy is very, very classy.. but the art, remains, one best suited to teams able to risk huge punishment in order to break partnerships.

As I've understood it, good leggies have historically given the ball a lot of air and basically invited punishment.. especially when hunting for wickets, pressuring with close catchers and therefore leaving huge gaps. They have been at their most effective when the captain has runs to play with (or confidence that his team can make up the runs) and can just accept that

Contrast that with finger spinners who, so long as they can get the ball to bite, have perhaps been better known for being able to tie batsmen down.. the source of control when the seamers are ineffective.. the persistent, nagging bowler who is just difficult to get away even when they err.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Is this another of Rachael's bizzare twist's on Cricket?

No I am with Rachael on this on, we all know Warne is a great bowler, but the ART of buying wickets has been used sinse cricket was invented.
Think about it flanflinger,I know it hurts, but Sawan had Flintoff a couple of times the same way OUCH.

Ern

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by Ernest

but the ART of buying wickets has been used sinse cricket was invented.


Ern

I accept that, I just don't think it can be applied to Warne...

I also do not accept that only leggies buy wicket. As a an off spin bowler I have often given the ball air, inviting the big drive or the lofted shot to mid-off or Mid-on, while accepting the risk of being hit but also perhaps picking up a catch or a stumping. I don't disagree that it can be a very useful tactic.

I just don't think it is one that Warne has often used, or that it is a tactic solely applied by leg-spinners.

[Ernest]

ff

You are right, all types of spin bowlers try and buy wickets at times, if the conitions are in the batters favour.

Leg spin, played second fiddle to finger spinners for quite a while, and really came into their own when wickets started to be covered.
Some pitches even Warne would be tame, so like any other spin bowler he will toss it up, and hope for a catch, an old play.

Finger spinners do the same, but they don't leave quite the same ammount of room, as do leggies.

Ern