5th ODI, S. Africa v Eng, East London, Wed 9th Feb

[Occasional Fan]

South Africa lost two to run outs themselves.

Just read somewhere that Freddie has had his operation and is lumbering around on crutches, confident that he'll get a couple of games at Lancashire before declaring himself fit for The Ashes series.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

So i heard, but I'm still not convinced he'll be fit for the first test. As for the odi's - well, if gough has an off day and no freddie we might see a new record total by the aussies - our bowling attack is that bad.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Now, I hate one-day cricket. I am a traditional dyed-in-the-wool Test match man. So as a rule I divven giv a sh1te-mun whether we win or lose in the football fan's version of the game.

Of coarse you don't like one-day cricket, not as long as England learn to play it properly I would presume.

ps: on the subject of football, I watched Holland 0-0 England, and it wasn't a bad game to watch despite the scoreline.

[Oliver]

Sadly Zainub I have never liked one day cricket.

ODIs are a jambouree for spectators. It is speed chess, sevens rugby or five-a-side football.

I don't really mind whether England win or lose, because in a year's time who will remember?

I do mind the manner of defeat, however. If England are annihilated that is depressing.

I have always been a Test match fan, and the first series that turned me on to cricket was England's summer series v. West Indies in 1976.

Watching three dynamic fast bowlers tearing through England's unhelmeted batting, watching ancient stalwarts like Edrich and Close standing up to the "off theory" barrage, watching in an age when the individual battles between batsmen and bowlers were much more even.

That was cricket at it's best.

And I'm afraid the only way to re-create such matches nowadays is to play them on appallingly uneven strips.
Which just isn't fair. If the bowler doesn't know where the ball is going, what chance for the batsman?

In '76, Roberts, Daniel and (the greatest of them all - in my opinion) Michael Holding, knew where the ball was going and England's batsmen smelt a great deal of leather.

It was hugely exciting and enervating cricket. I was fifteen, my football club had just been relegated to the old division two and I hadn't yet been caught by the Rugby Union bug, it was the summer before my "O" Levels and the spirit of defiance of the English county professionals against the joyously, soulful, steel drumming, reggae, hula, ganja, red stripe and colourful West Indians caught my mood beautifully.

One day cricket had barely got going, the first World Cup tournament (60 overs) was the summer before and I hadn't seen any of it. I can't deny that a World Cup excites me, though I was stuck in a lift over night and missed the opening skirmishes of the 1979 final.

But the endless pointless (seven? I mean seven?) one day internationals after a decent length Test series do just bore the hell out of me.

In my opinion all major Test series should be five Tests with nine days rest between each game.
In my opinion there should be two divisions of Test cricket and Bangladesh and Zimbabwe should be in the second division.

I think everybody else would be prepared to watch a five match series between the rest of the current nations.

Two matches is silly.
Three matches doesn't give the side losing the first game the chance to come back properly.
Four matches is a halfway house compromise so that you can play seventeen meaningless one-dayers.
Five matches is a true Test of skill, courage, determination, mental resources, planning and lastly, the spectators.

The five day match is not called a Test for nothing.

[Teatime FatCat]

Any team news yet? I think it starts in about 20 minutes.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Teatime FatCat

Any team news yet? I think it starts in about 20 minutes.

Boje out for Hall, De Villiers out for Bacher.

Didn't hear Vaughan. Though I suspect that he hasn't had the good grace to drop himself for Ian Bell.

[Occasional Fan]

We should be talking about this in the Sixth ODI thread, TTFC, but strangley I can't find any team news on the Beeb or on Cricinfo. Is it raining there? Forecast for today was showery.

This, however, is from The Guardian:

Pre-amble: South Africa have won the toss and, not surprisingly seeing as this Durban pitch looks at belter, have elected to bat. (That's another 300 on the board, then.) England have brought in Alex Wharf for Matthew Hoggard, while South Africa have dropped AB de Villiers and Nicky Boje for Adam Bacher and Andrew Hall.

[Zainub]

I don't wish to change the subject of this thread too much, but I couldn't resist since I like one-day cricket quite a lot.

For the record, I disagree, one-day cricket can be just as exciting as any other form of cricket. Although I agree that 7 one day games is too long a series, it is totally ridiculous as a matter of fact. 5 is more than enough for my money. I also think you are right about 5 test match series, I would love for Pakistan to play 5 test series, we haven't even played a 4 test match series for such a long time (I think it was 4 or 6 years ago when we last played one). I'd love that. One of the reasons why we do well in one-days but no so well in the tests is cause we don't played enough tests and too (way too many) one-days in comparision.

ps: Good luck England!

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

I don't wish to change the subject of this thread too much, but I couldn't resist since I like one-day cricket quite a lot.

For the record, I disagree, one-day cricket can be just as exciting as any other form of cricket.

I didn't say it isn't exciting. It just isn't very fulfilling. ITs a quick fix. Hurrah we've won one and then two days later Hurrah so have you.

A Test match, hurrah we won that and we'll remember large amounts of that in twenty-five years time. You just can't say the same thing about one day cricket.

I'm just trying to think of my oldest memory of one day cricket. I suspect it is from 1979 when I was stuck in a lift during the morning of the final between West Indies and England. I also remember Collis King and Viv Richards (?) made some runs and Boycott and Brearley scored far too slowly.

But while I remember that England won the two Test series in 1978 against New Zealand and Pakistan, goodness only knows what happened in the two Texaco one day trophy series that summer. England probably won, they were good at sixty over cricket in those days. But I'm only guessing.

Pakistan's attack consisted of a tall willowy fast medium bowler called Sikander Bakht, New Zealand had chaps called Hadlee, Collinge and Cairns. Wasim Bari was the captain and wicket keeper of Pakistan and probably Javed was amongst his top batsmen. It was the last English tour for Sadiq Mohammed and a last hurrah for Zaheer and somebody else (a Kent allrounder) can't remember his name. I remember wanting a chap called Haroon Raschid to succeed in the Tests, but he never did. David Gower made his debut, Ian Botham took wickets. Geoff Howarth? Was he playing then?

One day cricket? What's that?

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Oliver, aka, one-day cricket basher!

I didn't say it isn't exciting. It just isn't very fulfilling. ITs a quick fix. Hurrah we've won one and then two days later Hurrah so have you. A Test match, hurrah we won that and we'll remember large amounts of that in twenty-five years time. You just can't say the same thing about one day cricket.

I guess it is only a matter of prefernece O.

I was very young when Pakistan won the world cup, just 5 to be precise, I didn't watch cricket back then, I started watching when I was about 7, but I still remember my family going wild in celebration. And since then, I've personally watched that final against YOU guys (yes England) about 10 times at least and it makes me feel great everytime, I have a dvd of it too you know. Another match that I have never watched live although watched many times as such and its actually considered to be the stuff of legends is a one-day match in Sharjah in about 1993 I guess it was (if I'm remembering correctly) when Javed Miandad hit the most famous six ever of the last ball of the innings off I think it was Chetan Sharman to win the game for us, and I think I've watched that particular delivery about a gazillion times, in fact, one sports channel here in Pakistan called Ten Sports runs it everytime Pakistan are in need of some sort of an inspiration in their on going games.

I can think of many many one-day games that have stuck in my mind as memories and will remain so for the rest of my life let alone 20 or 30 years. For instance I don't think I can ever forget that game in Karachi last year where we needed asix to win of the last ball chasing 350, and we lost, and I was in the stadium too, I don't think I'll foget that even if I wan to. The same goes for that entire series.

Other one-day matches I have fond memories of include

Pak vs NZ, Old Trafford, Manchestor, 1999 WC Semi Final (NZ bat first get 240 odd, we chase pefectly, Saeed Anwer
makes a hundred and we go win by 9 wickets, one of our best all round one-day performances ever I would think

Pak vs Aus, can't remember where it took place, but it was our first match in the 1999 WC, I think we put up about 230 on the board, and bowled Aus out in the last over, Wasim took a few and we won by 3 or 4 runs

Pak vs Sri, tied, in Sharjah, can't remember when but I reckon it must have been 1999, we made 180 odd, Sri Lanka were 160 for 3, almost cantering to a win, but Abdul Razzaq took 5 and cleaned up the middle and late order and we ended up tieing the match, brilliant mathc that was

Pak vs SA, Lahore, 2003, we put on 270 odd, Shoaib Malik made about 70 of about 50 balls, and then SA were 200-2, but we still manage to win in the last over, where they needed 8, Shoaib took 4 wickets in that match

Then I can think of many matches not involving Pakistan as well

The Semi final of the 1999 wc, between Aus and SA, again a tied match, widely described as the best one-day match ever
And Eng vs Aus, 2nd vb series final in 2002, Aus not making more than about 220 odd if I'm correct, then England getting in a good position to win it, but lost their way in the end and Brett Lee bowled well and they won by less then 10 runs
Then Eng vs Aus, at Port Elizabeth in the last wc, England made 200, Bichel took 7 wicktes, Freddie and Stewart got 40s, and then England got them 7 or 8 down, but Jimmy Anderson bowled a horrible 49th over, and thanks to Bevan who made about 50 odd not out and Bichel who made 36 odd not out, Aus (just) won...

I can think of many many more great one-day games that can be desrcribed as fulfilling and that will be remembered in many years to come, I guess it is just a matter of preference really, some people enjoy one-day cricket more, some test, I enjoy both just as much, I just love anytype of cricket really, anything.