South Africa v England, 7th ODI, Centurion, Sunday 13th Feb.

[Occasional Fan]

GW - I have to say that England have not looked like winners in the rugby at all in the last couple of weeks (plus a bit!). France were also not all that good - which makes the loss against them all the more difficult to bear. I have also to say that it is good to see Wales back. The Six Nations really is a contest again, and that is definitely good for the game. Wales or Ireland will win this year. I give the edge to Ireland, but you never know. If Ireland takes it, it will be with a Grand Slam.

Anyway, this is off the subject a bit, and I know it's the wrong message given this year's sponsors, but "Never forget you're Welsh". Hmm. A pun. And it doesn't work if you write it down. Ah, well ...

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Lee Johnson

You right its all Jones fault, the fact that Strauss, Tresco, and Vaughn were awful. The bowlers bar Gough and Giles didnt have a clue what they were up to and we were poor in the field missing the stups almost every time and mis fielding regularly. Yep all Jones fault, he made the england management bat him at 2 when he had been doing well at 7, he made the england management stick with the plan even though it clearly wasnt working. He has obviously been planted by the Aussies to undermine our current good form, because after all he is an aussie anyway.

The answer is obvious, bring back Chris Read who will score a tenacious 12 coming in at 8. With his tremendous batting ability he will no doubt teach Tres how to move his feet, Vaughn to score quicker than a run every 2 balls and help Strauss regain his form. As for the bowling, he will probably take off the pads and bowl the death overs himself as hes obviously the answer to all our problems.

BRING BACK CHRIS READ NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe I said any of that! I'll go with the fact that Jones' one day record outside Zimbabwe is worse than Chris Read's. I'll go with the fact that he's been given very good opportunities to prove he can bat in one day matches and hasn't proved anything positive.

Your response is far more defensive than usual, Lee. Jones has done nothing in this series to justify his place in the team ahead of Read.

That Trescothick, Vaughan and Strauss have not scored the runs is neither here nor there. When Jones was first selected some people said he was good enough to play as a batsman .............. how far off the mark is that ? We think Vaughan is doing badly yet averaged nearly forty I believe in South Africa, a little better than the less than twenty from the opening batsmen. Is Read's dodgy technique so much of an issue in the one day game ? 'cos Jones better technique doesn't seem to make him perform any better! Read's keeping is better and in the one day game his batting isn't much different. What reason could anyone possibly want to select Jones????

The bowling ? Well I don't believe anyone other than the bowlers can take the blame for that. Kabir Ali needs to work on his yorkers and slower ball but there's loads of potential there. Harmison is a mystery.

[Teatime FatCat]

What about Tatenda Taibu - can't we get him English qualified? Best keeper / batsman in one day cricket after Gilly.

ps - We could offer him the One day Captaincy, and he might bring his mate Streaky with him.

[Lee Johnson]

I was merely pointing out that one of the only players who has been criticised to the nth degree is Jones. When in fact he was one of many who had poor series.

What we have is a player being batted out of position, which i think everyone can agree on. Who because of this is taking a lot of flack. I know people say Jones could get him in the team as a batsmen alone, i agree with this but a middle order batsmen not an opener.

I think Jones has been on the end of a lot of criticism from the Read fanclub for the last year.

I dont think Chris Read is the answer to our problems, maybe jones isnt either though.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Lee Johnson

I was merely pointing out that one of the only players who has been criticised to the nth degree is Jones. When in fact he was one of many who had poor series.

What we have is a player being batted out of position, which i think everyone can agree on. Who because of this is taking a lot of flack. I know people say Jones could get him in the team as a batsmen alone, i agree with this but a middle order batsmen not an opener.

I think Jones has been on the end of a lot of criticism from the Read fanclub for the last year.

I dont think Chris Read is the answer to our problems, maybe jones isnt either though.

I agree with you that Jones has come in for more criticism than most. Tresco was appalling during the last fortnight! And Strauss' form left South Africa well before he did.

Once Freddie is back then I reckon we could play with our best wicketkeeper rather than having to put someone intp the side whose keeping is not quite as good. I don't believe Jones will score sufficiently more runs batting at number seven (in comparison to Read or whoever) to justify his place in the side. In fact the way Giles has batted over the past year or so would it be so bad to have him up there in one day matches ?? The major arguement against Read is his technique which isn't the best against the quick bowlers. This isn't an issue for someone coming in at seven in the one day game, or if it is then it means you're five down within the first twenty overs - not something you should ever be planning for!

We'll probably never agree of this on, Lee. I'm just very disappointed at how badly our top four have played throughout this series. I cannot believe how stubborn and pig-headed the management team have been. They've been as inflexible as they possibly could have been and it's made our team look rather stupid.

[Lee Johnson]

Nope, i dont think we ever will. I'm sure we will each back our man as far as possible.

As you say When Flintoff is back it will change the entire balence of the one day team. He offers us so many options, which is what quality players do and if read does playbecause of this i would bat Gilo above him now.

The management knew after the 3rd game that there master plan wasnt working and should have had Strauss move up to open and Pietersen come in at 4 and That would have left Jones at 7 where he is comfortable against the older ball. We would have had more chance of chasing 300 if he had been batting in his proper position.

Problem is now where do they go, how long do they give Jones? Read never got the oppertunities that Jones has got but maybe they never saw anything in Read to lead them to believe he had more potential with the bat. At least we've got these options and people are pressing for places.

[Notts Exile]

Originally Posted by Lee Johnson

The management knew after the 3rd game that there master plan wasnt working and should have had Strauss move up to open and Pietersen come in at 4 and That would have left Jones at 7 where he is comfortable against the older ball. We would have had more chance of chasing 300 if he had been batting in his proper position.

Problem is now where do they go, how long do they give Jones? Read never got the oppertunities that Jones has got but maybe they never saw anything in Read to lead them to believe he had more potential with the bat. At least we've got these options and people are pressing for places.

You're right there Lee. I believe a lot of the stick Jones is getting is because of the way the management seem to be backing him way above what they gave to his predecessor, who did little wrong before getting dropped from the one day squad.

It's my belief that although Fletcher might know how to build a Test team he has very little idea of how to do this in the One Day arena. See his chopping and changing of players over the las few years. One minute we're going for the likes of Clarke and Blackwell the next minute we're trying to mirror the Teat Team. They've got very lucky with KP, but had Freddie been fit they wouldn't even have had him in South Africa!!! Ian Bell was picked, now most Warwickshire fans I know don't really rate him as a One Day batsman. I do wonder if they know what they're doing!

[Lee Johnson]

It seems to me that they use the One day game to test the temprament of potential test players. Strauss and tresco were bought in this way and that is how they are opening the door for Bell and Pietersen.

Problem is we are no closer to a starting line up for WC2007 now than we were at the start of the summer. Saying that though i really dont give a toss about the one day game in comparison to tests. Although to be the best team in the world you have to be competitive in both forms of the game not just one.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Do we really overlook Bell who has really looked the part test wise ? On the other hand do we really overlook a guy who has averages over 100 against the likes of pollock and Ntini ? Can you really drop thorpe, our most talented performer in ages, even though he's getting on a bit ? I'd probably give KP a go againt Bang (Its not going to do thorpe any good IMHO) and see how he goes. Another nice conundrum to have. If only we were as blessed in the seam department !!!!!!!!

[adamski]

As much as I like Key - he hasn't yet cut it, I do rate Key becuase of his attitude and temperament. But when someone like Bell has similar attitude and temperament, but with more ability and better fielding - how do we keep him out. The same with Pietersen!! - I wouldn't drop Thorpe, but I'm afraid Key will have to go to accommodate one of those two..... Who comes in however is tricky, Bell or KP????