NatWest Challenge, The Brit Oval: England v Australia Tuesday 11th July.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

The view that harmo should be first change is gathering momentum too. well i think so anyway.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

The view that harmo should be first change is gathering momentum too. well i think so anyway.

Absolutely, let's open up with Matthew (4,4,4,4,4,4, sorry skip it's not swinging) Hoggard and Jones the knee.
Perhaps Tremlett is a better bet than Hoggard.

Though maybe Hoggard would've had a bit more success if we'd started the series at the beginning of the summer.

Instead of playing so many ODIs that the Australians have the measure of us before the real stuff starts.

Is anybody out there still convinced that we're going to win the Ashes?

Ernest? You listening?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Seamer

England had better prepare bowler-friendly wickets for the tests i think. That is where the have enjoyed success. Seems to me that they are lacking penetration on good batting tracks.

There's no such thing as pentration on good batting tracks: on such a track... almost by definition.... a batsman has to contribute to his own downfall to get out.

I'd agree on preparing wet pitches with variabe bounce that will degrade massively by days 4 and 5 though: that would level the playingfield immensely.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Rachael

There's no such thing as pentration on good batting tracks: on such a track... almost by definition.... a batsman has to contribute to his own downfall to get out.

I'd agree on preparing wet pitches with variabe bounce that will degrade massively by days 4 and 5 though: that would level the playingfield immensely.

Or perhaps we could go back a year and re-organise the timetable so that we start the series somewhere around the third week in June - Thursday 16th - seems like a good day.

I understand, by positive recall, that the Australians were playing pretty poorly around then, prompting some of us to think that we actually had a chance in the Ashes.

Chances are we could probably be two matches up by now.

Well, chance missed now I think.

England are about to be utterly cowed, and the fact that we're about to bring in our two "best" players (for Pietersen and Gough) Thorpe and Hoggard, truly represents the rather large mountain that we're going to have to climb in order to compete (to horribly mix metaphors) on a level playing field against these chaps.

Even Gillespie bowled well today.

And if he'd played in a Test like he did in the early one-dayers he'd've been creamed all over the park, and forever lost to Test cricket.

Blimey-O'Reilly we're in big trouble now.

[Aussie-Yank]

Originally Posted by Rachael

I'd agree on preparing wet pitches with variabe bounce that will degrade massively by days 4 and 5 though: that would level the playingfield immensely.

I don't think Australia would mind to much on that, I would back Warne going through the English than Giles going through the Aussies on a wicket the was deterating by day 4.

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Blimey-O'Reilly we're in big trouble now.

Oh for god's sake Oliver You kicked our asses only four days ago, and suddenly all is lost? Tell me your posts are tounge in cheek!

[Aussie-Yank]

Gilly gets a ton, finding some good batting form just before the Ashes - Thanks England

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Is anybody out there still convinced that we're going to win the Ashes?

Ernest? You listening?

LOL we don't win ODIs, we are rubbish at one day cricket, look at the ratings .

Put in perspective, Aussie have won no more games than us, counting the 20/20 they have won this series 2/1, but taking all matches into consideration, we have won the same each-I think.

I agree Oliver, we won't win the ashes by as large a margin .

It's a one day match, on an Australia type weather day.

[Trescothick]

I think i've worked out Englands plan. We don't really want this series and we are simply giving Australia fake confidence. Let Gilchrist get some easy runs and he'll think he can score off any ball is Test and find he'll be out very soon. Ponting we are doing the same. Also we allowed Gillespie a good session so that he will be picked for the first test, otherwise he might have been dropped and we'd be in trouble, same with Lee.

This is all good preparation... Lets just go ahead and trash the Aussies in the Tests.

[English_Al]

Seamer, you cant blame Oliver for the pessimism, the display today is just like old times. And dont think for a minute that it will all be scrubbed over because 'it's only a ODI', the Aussies will milk this for all it's worth, not just a victory but a hammering. They will go into that first test with the same verve that they've had for years in Ashes battles.

We did hammer the Aussies the other day but the conditions were well in our favour. I agree with what others have said, we do need tough-to-bat conditions. Not necessarily because it levels the playing field, but also because I think that we know how to play on them better than flat trackers. We are now playing on a pitch that the Aussies are used to playing on, fast and true bounce.

The commentators (particularly Botham) are getting right up my nose, slamming our openers for their slow start, and that they should never have let McGrath bowl those 4 maidens etc but I can understand why it happened. On here we've all said the same thing about our openers needing to play sensibly and not get out to stupid shots. I think that Tres going quickly frightened us to bits and we just had to shut up shop. We've tried the attacking option but we just get out. I dont know the answer!