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ODI Archived Threads 2005 Onwards. One day cricket.

 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2005, 11:17 AM
Occasional Fan Occasional Fan is offline
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Why England should not enter the ICCCT 2006

Cricinfo and the ICC website today carry very similar reports which point out a worry for England. The forthcoming ODI series against Pakistan is the last one which England will play before the cut-off date which determines who needs to play in the preliminary rounds of the ICC Champions Trophy next winter. England need to win this series to ensure that they will avoid the ICCCT preliminary rounds. And who really expects that?

The story gets worse. The ICCCT is being held in November 2006 in India - and is the reason for the very late start to the 2006/7 Ashes series which compresses five test matches into 44 days. So - England go into an Ashes campaign thoroughly knackered from an extended ICCCT campaign (unless they get knocked out early on, which might be OK in terms of allowing rest time but won't do wonders for their confidence), and fully focused on all the skills that the ODI format requires. Hmm! Excellent!

My views on the ODI format are well known to the old hands here: there's just too much of it about. England, in my opinion, should not enter the ICCCT 2006, but should use the time productively on training for test cricket so that they can go to Brisbane with the best possible chance of retaining The Ashes.

Cricinfo report here.

ICC report here.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2005, 11:34 AM in reply to Occasional Fan's post "Why England should not enter the ICCCT..."
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It makes sense to miss the ICCCT on cricketing grounds alone. The players need adeqaute rest before a schedule that has the Ashes, the World Cup and the following English summer. In the past England have suffered, along with other nations, with injuries to over-worked players - Flintoff, Gough, Caddick ...

However, diplomatically it would be a disaster for England to opt out. The ICC would be furious if one of the major nations, the game's founders, refused to play in the tournament. And if there are to be any contentious issues coming up e.g. Zimbabwe tours, we need to avoid annoying the ICC.

So what you say is the sensible thing to do for the well-being of the players, but politics will rule in the end.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:43 AM in reply to Mongoose's post starting "It makes sense to miss the ICCCT on..."
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I have no doubt about that, Mongoose. But as you say, the argument is on cricketing grounds only, not politics. I see nothing for England to gain by attending this jamboree, and I said during the last ICCCT (the first one I'd ever heard of, in fact) that it was ridiculous in terms of workload. If things are going to change, someone needs to make the first move. Why not one of the game's founders? Or we could send England A.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:43 AM in reply to Mongoose's post starting "It makes sense to miss the ICCCT on..."
Notts Exile Notts Exile is offline
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The sensible option would be to turn up with a slightly understrength side. Leave out our key Ashes man like Freddie and Tresco in particular.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:57 AM in reply to Notts Exile's post starting "The sensible option would be to turn up..."
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It's sensible, but it's dishonest, isn't it? I was tongue in cheek on the England A idea. If you are going to enter a competition, you owe it to yourselves and your opponents to give it your best shot with your best team. Sending an under-strength side to make up the numbers is, IMHO, far worse than doing the honest thing and saying "Sorry, guys, but we've bigger fish to fry". It would, as I see it, be a far greater insult to the teams playing for something which matters to them if England sent a second string outfit than it would to wish them all a lot of fun while saying, honestly, that the competition just doesn't matter to us.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:10 PM in reply to Occasional Fan's post starting "It's sensible, but it's dishonest,..."
Notts Exile Notts Exile is offline
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We have to be honest to ourselves. We would be sending out the best team we can given that our next engagement is to be a very hard tour of Australia. We wouldn't be the first side to play a few reserves. I wasn't suggesting the entire A Team, just a few of them. If I remember correctly when the ICCCCCCTTT Trophy was played in Sri Lanka we had a few making debuts and rare appearances, Ian Blackwell sure played. There is a fine line between being fair and honest and being disrespectful, leaving a few at home is not the latter I hope.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:18 PM in reply to Notts Exile's post starting "We have to be honest to ourselves. We..."
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I see your point, Notts Exile, and in the end I suspect that your solution will prevail for reasons of politics within the ICC and between the ICC and the ECB. But:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notts Exile
We have to be honest to ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Occasional Fan
Honestly, ... the competition just doesn't matter to us.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:33 PM in reply to Occasional Fan's post starting "I see your point, Notts Exile, and in..."
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If there is a dispute between sport and money, in this day and age money is the winner 99.9% of the time. The ICC wants to make money from the 'jamboree' (I like this definition of the ICCCT!), and would probably penalise England financially if they did not take part. I really wish money played no part in sport. It has ruined football and taken it away from the people who support the game. It could do the same to cricket. The presence of money and businessmen in sport, and the effect it has on the games, makes me very very sad.
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Old 08-12-2005, 02:13 PM in reply to Mongoose's post starting "If there is a dispute between sport and..."
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It's dangerous to blame the ICC though. As David Morgan pointed out in connection with the last England tour of Zimbabwe, the ICC is no more nor less than a federation of member organisations. Blame the ICC for the Zimbabwe tour, he said, and what you are really doing is blaming the national boards, including the ECB. No problem with that logic as I see it, and I was fairly plain in connection with the Zimbabwe issue in saying that the ECB held the cards and should play its hand as it felt fit and then live with the consequences - which, in that case, included my displeasure (about which the ECB did not give a stuff, of course).

The logic here is the same: the power (and therefore the responsibility) is with the national boards, not the ICC. There may be many good reasons why England should play - including development of the game worldwide - but the ECB should decide on those in conjunction with its clear obligations to the game as played in and by England. They should not attempt to hide behind the ICC in this case (not that they have, of course, yet: I hope they won't).
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2005, 06:20 PM in reply to Occasional Fan's post starting "It's dangerous to blame the ICC though...."
Ninjaman Ninjaman is offline
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The last time England played Australia in Asutralia, there was an ICC Champions Trophy just before the tour started.

Also, in between the Test matches, there was a VB one day series also.

The ICC Champions Trophy is at the most going to be 8 or so ODI games spread over October and November.

Nothing for professional sportspeople.

The Aussies are scheduled to play NZ after the ICC Champions Trophy and before England.

I bet you there is less moaning on their part.

On the Cricket Australia website, the dates for the England Test matches are still not confirmed.

I particularly remember when England beat Australia at the last "jamboree" by 6 wickets the competition wasn't all that bad.
 


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