Best England ODI side? - World A-Team Cricket Forum

feverpitch · #1 (**permalink**) 23-02-2008, 07:54 PM

Mine:

Ideally:

Trescothick (Carberry)
Shah
Bell
KP
Collingwood
Wright
Ambrose
Flintoff
Swann
Broad
Sidebottom

Rachael · 23-02-2008, 08:18 PM in reply to feverpitch's post "Best England ODI side?"

I don't see a problem with the following:

Cook
Bell
KP
Shah
Collingwood
Flintoff
Mustard
Swann
Broad
Sidebottom
Panesar

Pretty much what's in place right now...

Aurelius · 11:45 PM

I have a couple of possible combinations:

Cook
Mustard
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Joyce/Strauss
Wright
Broad
Swann
Sidebottom
Panesar/Tremlett

So, almost exactly the same team they have now, or else switch Mustard with the number 6.

Incidentally, would the pace attack of Sidebottom (6.4) Tremlett (6.7) and Broad (6.5) be the tallest English pace attack ever?

greg

Not the current one.

Aurelius

Well, why not? The batsman aren't actually that bad, and the only weak link that I see is Shah, who's gone from my side. The bowling attack is more balanced, with at least one spinner at all times, and hopefully Tremlett would be more consistent than Anderson (well, he's only played about 5-10 games, so why not find out?).

engssmoothcriminal

Basically this current England one day side has two major problems; a lack of fire power up front with the bat and a quality (wicket taker in the middle overs) 4th bowling option. If Trescothick and Flintoff miraculously sorted out all their problems that would solved and the side would be in pretty decent order. However that is a very big and increasingly desperate if.

In terms of replacing Trescothick we’ve gone down the pinch hitter/poor mans Gilchrist route with very limited success. Frenetic 20’s and 30’s don’t win games and until the likes of Mustard e.t.c learn how to properly construct an innings then IMO we’ve just got to go down the orthodox route and get our best players at the top of the order and forget our slightly mindless obsession with exploiting the power plays. Bell, Cook, KP (time for him to step and bat at 3) and Colly should be the England top 4.

In terms of replacing Flintoff then bits and pieces cricketers like Wright and Mascharenhas (they simply cannot play in the same XI) for all their hitting exploits in the final overs simply don’t cut it. The 4th bowler simply has to be able to bowl either during the power plays or at the death Mascharenhas and co have a very small window of opportunity in which they can safely bowl. A period of the game which is already being filled by Collingwood.

My team would be
Bell
Cook
KP
Collingwood
Bopara (he’s potentially a top quality player and playing him up the order as a batsmen not shoving him down the order in some vague bits and pieces role could be the making of him)
Ambrose
Wright
Plunkett (yes he sprays it all over the place but he’s a wicket taker)
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson (pretty well by default given I trust the flaky Tremlett even less)

I’m loathe to go into a game without a specialist spinner but unless conditions simply demand it (or Flintoff returns) the side needs the extra security of a frontline seamer.

wilyoldfox

Think you should always have panesar, he is the only quality spinner you have, and has the potential to go on and become a world class bowler. And also spinners can always turn matches in 3-4 overs. I do understand there is a problem with his fitness but still he is to good a prospect to keep out whatever form of the game.

Rachael · 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal

Bell, Cook, KP (time for him to step and bat at 3) and Colly should be the England top 4.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal

In terms of replacing Flintoff then bits and pieces cricketers like Wright and Mascharenhas (they simply cannot play in the same XI)

Agreed, but if you pick Bopara (not my pick) you don't really need either Wright OR Mascarenhas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal

Ambrose

Why not Mustard down the order? His glovework has been more impressive than I expected.... I'm concerned that Ambrose's might not be so good... and Mustard's batting is clearly good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by engssmoothcriminal

I’m loathe to go into a game without a specialist spinner but unless conditions simply demand it (or Flintoff returns) the side needs the extra security of a frontline seamer.

Well, I'd pick Panesar AND Swann in the default side and then bring in additional seamers instead on a horsees-for-courses basis: I don't see any sense in seam bowling for the sake of it.

If Flintoff's out.... Cook, Bell, Pieterson, Shah / Joyce (Shah's better at slip and can bowl), Collingwood, Mustard, Swann, Broad, Sidebottom, Panesar.

Milo · 25-02-2008, 10:13 AM in reply to feverpitch's post "Best England ODI side?"

I do not want to see Cook and Bell batting together. Every man and his dog has commented that these two very often bog down the innings when at the crease at the same time (Atheron noted it in the first power play after Mustard was out the other day). By giving these two the opportunity to waste the fielding restrictions is simply playing in the past. We need to realise that putting the keeper in first will not work. Get a proper opening batsman (the answer is hopefully Trescothick) and let's take advantage of the first 20.

Rachael

Whilst Cook and Bell do not CURRENTLY maximise the opening overs.... I don't see any reason why they could not GO ON TO maximise those overs... and I don't see any other player (other than Vaughan, who should probably be returned to the side ASAP) going on to do a better job.

For once, Pringle actually makes a decent point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pringle

England have rarely picked batsmen specifically to attack in the first 15-20 overs of a one-day match. Mustard is an attempt to rectify that, but when he fails, which he does too often, it leaves Cook and Ian Bell together at the crease during the Powerplay overs, a combination hardly likely to make the most of the field restrictions.

Bell realised that in the last game in Christchurch and tried to accelerate by lofting a six over long-off. He didn't make it, his attempt causing one of the TV commentators to describe it as the "prettiest bad shot" he'd seen. Cook and Bell are fine batsmen, but they cannot both be in the top three.

Their shortcomings as ball strikers are recognised and batting coach Andy Flower has been trying to inject some power and dynamism into their game. Yet a strike rate above 78 runs per hundred balls can be achieved in other ways, as a video of Javed Miandad playing a one-day innings will show. You needed more than 11 fielders to plug the gaps Javed exploited, which he did by playing late and running hard.

Given the succession of run-outs earlier in this tour, it's hardly surprising that the England batsmen have been less than impressive on this front.... but it's an area where Bell, in particular, should go onto be exemplary.

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